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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2081
RE: Trump Administration
In simple terms, Obama and Lad and JAAO were not there, co-signing with me at the bank. It was just me, putting up everything I had.

When I would lie awake trying to figure out how to make payroll, Obama et al were not there.

When I got audited, Obama et al were there to talk to the agent. NOT.

When I got sued, Obama et al were not there to share the liability or pay the lawyer..

But when it come time to grab a share of what I built and to wag a finger at me that I didn’t build it by myself, the room gets crowded. Everybody has a hand out.


BTW, this attitude toward small businessmen and entrepreneurs was another brick in the wall that fell on Hillary.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2017 07:51 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
10-20-2017 07:49 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #2082
RE: Trump Administration
(10-20-2017 07:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  In simple terms, Obama and Lad and JAAO were not there, co-signing with me at the bank. It was just me, putting up everything I had.

When I would lie awake trying to figure out how to make payroll, Obama et al were not there.

When I got audited, Obama et al were there to talk to the agent. NOT.

When I got sued, Obama et al were not there to share the liability or pay the lawyer..

But when it come time to grab a share of what I built and to wag a finger at me that I didn’t build it by myself, the room gets crowded. Everybody has a hand out.


BTW, this attitude toward small businessmen and entrepreneurs was another brick in the wall that fell on Hillary.

Sigh. I thought we had least gotten to the point where we were no longer arguing that he was trying to say that YOU specifically didn't build THAT (your business). If I could do it over, I'd just save myself some time and post this politifact summary:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ild-truth/

The key quote: "Romney also conveniently ignores Obama's clear summary of his message, that "the point is ... that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.""

Taking that as "Obama is too collectivist for my tastes," fine. But taking it as "Obama personally said I didn't work hard and disrespected me." No.

Regarding entrepreneurs and businessmen: I think Republican entrepreneurs and small businesspeople may think there is some attitude on the left about them, but again, almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems, ranging from moderates who 20 years ago might have been CoC Republicans to bernie supporters.
10-21-2017 08:36 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2083
RE: Trump Administration
I also used Mexican roads and bridges.
10-21-2017 08:47 AM
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Post: #2084
RE: Trump Administration
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(10-20-2017 07:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  In simple terms, Obama and Lad and JAAO were not there, co-signing with me at the bank. It was just me, putting up everything I had.

When I would lie awake trying to figure out how to make payroll, Obama et al were not there.

When I got audited, Obama et al were there to talk to the agent. NOT.

When I got sued, Obama et al were not there to share the liability or pay the lawyer..

But when it come time to grab a share of what I built and to wag a finger at me that I didn’t build it by myself, the room gets crowded. Everybody has a hand out.


BTW, this attitude toward small businessmen and entrepreneurs was another brick in the wall that fell on Hillary.

Sigh. I thought we had least gotten to the point where we were no longer arguing that he was trying to say that YOU specifically didn't build THAT (your business). If I could do it over, I'd just save myself some time and post this politifact summary:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ild-truth/

The key quote: "Romney also conveniently ignores Obama's clear summary of his message, that "the point is ... that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.""

Taking that as "Obama is too collectivist for my tastes," fine. But taking it as "Obama personally said I didn't work hard and disrespected me." No.

Regarding entrepreneurs and businessmen: I think Republican entrepreneurs and small businesspeople may think there is some attitude on the left about them, but again, almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems, ranging from moderates who 20 years ago might have been CoC Republicans to bernie supporters.

Heck, one of the reasons many on the left support stronger social safety nets is so that people can take more risks and be more entrepreneurial without having to worry about losing their healthcare, having total financial ruin that puts them into poverty, etc.
10-21-2017 09:21 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2085
RE: Trump Administration
(10-21-2017 09:21 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(10-20-2017 07:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  In simple terms, Obama and Lad and JAAO were not there, co-signing with me at the bank. It was just me, putting up everything I had.

When I would lie awake trying to figure out how to make payroll, Obama et al were not there.

When I got audited, Obama et al were there to talk to the agent. NOT.

When I got sued, Obama et al were not there to share the liability or pay the lawyer..

But when it come time to grab a share of what I built and to wag a finger at me that I didn’t build it by myself, the room gets crowded. Everybody has a hand out.


BTW, this attitude toward small businessmen and entrepreneurs was another brick in the wall that fell on Hillary.

Sigh. I thought we had least gotten to the point where we were no longer arguing that he was trying to say that YOU specifically didn't build THAT (your business). If I could do it over, I'd just save myself some time and post this politifact summary:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ild-truth/

The key quote: "Romney also conveniently ignores Obama's clear summary of his message, that "the point is ... that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.""

Taking that as "Obama is too collectivist for my tastes," fine. But taking it as "Obama personally said I didn't work hard and disrespected me." No.

Regarding entrepreneurs and businessmen: I think Republican entrepreneurs and small businesspeople may think there is some attitude on the left about them, but again, almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems, ranging from moderates who 20 years ago might have been CoC Republicans to bernie supporters.

Heck, one of the reasons many on the left support stronger social safety nets is so that people can take more risks and be more entrepreneurial without having to worry about losing their healthcare, having total financial ruin that puts them into poverty, etc.

That’s what bankruptcy laws and corporations are for. My corporation borrowed the money, I as an individual co-signed. Someday, maybe you will want to start something that can grow and make you rich. If so, you will follow the same path.

Th lawsuit I mentioned was not in a business I started, but one I acquired. It was a product liability suit, and was for 8 figures. The other side wanted to “pierce the corporate veil”. We prevailed. By “we” I mean me, you, JAAO, Obama, and all the other people there in the courtroom with me and sharing the sleepless nights.

BTW, did I mention I used the Mexican infrastructure? I wonder how much I owe Mexico?
10-21-2017 09:44 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #2086
RE: Trump Administration
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Sigh. I thought we had least gotten to the point where we were no longer arguing that he was trying to say that YOU specifically didn't build THAT (your business). If I could do it over, I'd just save myself some time and post this politifact summary:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ild-truth/
The key quote: "Romney also conveniently ignores Obama's clear summary of his message, that "the point is ... that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.""
Taking that as "Obama is too collectivist for my tastes," fine. But taking it as "Obama personally said I didn't work hard and disrespected me." No.
Regarding entrepreneurs and businessmen: I think Republican entrepreneurs and small businesspeople may think there is some attitude on the left about them, but again, almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems, ranging from moderates who 20 years ago might have been CoC Republicans to bernie supporters.

As an aside, I find Politifact to be far more "Politi" than "fact" most of the time. I'll read what they have to say, but I'm not taking it at face value, not any more than I take anything from Fox or CNN or BBC or NPR at face value. Everybody has an agenda, sometimes disclosed and sometimes hidden.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone take it to mean, "Obama said I didn't work hard and he disrespected me." I don't think anyone takes it that personally. I think the message, "Obama is too collectivist for my taste," is sufficient to support any and all of the opposition that I've seen and heard, here or elsewhere.

I think the distinction that some of his defenders are trying to make, that, "you didn't build that," means that you didn't build the roads and bridges, not that you didn't build your business, is pretty superficial and neglects the real problem. It's a short trip from, "you didn't build those roads and bridges," to, "you didn't build those roads and bridges, and without them you wouldn't have succeeded," to, "because those roads and bridges made you successful, we're entitled to take away the rewards of that success as your 'fair share,' and we're here to take it from you now." And it's that latter construction that drives the objection. As I've said above, the two counters to that progression seem to be to be 1) the successful entrepreneur pays more taxes than the rest of us, and thus has already paid his "fair share" of the cost of those roads and bridges, and 2) everybody else had use of the same roads and bridges, and they didn't have the same success, so obviously the roads and bridges weren't the primary drivers.

As long as, "you didn't build that," means simply that we are all in this together, I have no problem. But when it morphs into, "you didn't build that, so we're entitled to take away the rewards of your building that and redistribute it to people whose votes we can buy with it," then I have a problem. And it takes nothing more than, "Obama is too collectivist for my tastes," to get me there.

I don't think anyone objects on the personal level that you are suggesting. But there is substantial (and IMO justified) objection to the inevitable financial consequences of collectivism. And that is where the problem with Obama's words lies.

(10-21-2017 09:21 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Heck, one of the reasons many on the left support stronger social safety
nets is so that people can take more risks and be more entrepreneurial without having to worry about losing their healthcare, having total financial ruin that puts them into poverty, etc.

Absolutely. I've heard Richard Branson specifically address this point in speaking to a group. That's why I favor a stronger safety net than we have now--universal health care based on the Bismarck model, guaranteed minimum income based on Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund. Where I differ from democrats and collectivists/socialists/communists is that I would pay for it with across-the-board flatter taxes rather than using a "progressive" tax code as a redistribution channel.

There's a reason why a large number of countries (like basically the rest of OECD) with far less "progressive" tax codes than ours have far less unequal dispersions of income and wealth. And at least part of that reason is that "progressive" tax codes don't work, at least not when there are other options available.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2017 10:28 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-21-2017 10:17 AM
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Post: #2087
RE: Trump Administration
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.
10-22-2017 02:25 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2088
RE: Trump Administration
(10-22-2017 02:25 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.

FWIW, almost all the entrepreneurs and small business people I know are conservatives. Of course, I don't live in Austin.
10-22-2017 07:01 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #2089
RE: Trump Administration
(10-22-2017 07:01 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 02:25 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.

FWIW, almost all the entrepreneurs and small business people I know are conservatives. Of course, I don't live in Austin.

It is amazing the change in economic politics that happens many times when one goes from a W-4 existence to 1099 or owner's draw; or when one goes from the tax form 'fill in the blank with paycheck numbers' to the one that you fully need to understand the difference between capital expenses and operating expenses; or the implication of carryover losses and their allocation; or the supposedly simple physical change of depositing a paycheck to depositing incoming payments from invoices.

Those don't affect social politics much (i.e. gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc) -- but the transformation that each of those entails in issues of government spending and taxation is amazing. Much like the transformation I have seen of some alcoholics after they flip their first car on a deserted highway with no (or relatively minor) injury to anyone.

Even in Austin.
10-22-2017 10:10 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2090
RE: Trump Administration
(10-22-2017 10:10 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 07:01 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 02:25 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.

FWIW, almost all the entrepreneurs and small business people I know are conservatives. Of course, I don't live in Austin.

It is amazing the change in economic politics that happens many times when one goes from a W-4 existence to 1099 or owner's draw; or when one goes from the tax form 'fill in the blank with paycheck numbers' to the one that you fully need to understand the difference between capital expenses and operating expenses; or the implication of carryover losses and their allocation; or the supposedly simple physical change of depositing a paycheck to depositing incoming payments from invoices.

Those don't affect social politics much (i.e. gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc) -- but the transformation that each of those entails in issues of government spending and taxation is amazing. Much like the transformation I have seen of some alcoholics after they flip their first car on a deserted highway with no (or relatively minor) injury to anyone.

Even in Austin.

Jimmy Carter flipped my car for me. Turned me conservative as I crawled out of the wreckage. That's when I realized that a "conservative Democrat" was a dying breed.

Most Republicans and other brands of conservatives today are of the "fiscal conservative, social liberal" genre, although Hillary (deplorables), Obama (bitter clingers), and other Democrat leaders try to paint all nonliberals as socally conservative, i. e., they want to turn the clock back. It always amazes me that intelligent people will buy this hook, line, and sinker. But it is always cast as the Eloi vs. the Morlocks. Bad enough I am called racist, sexist, homphobic, and misogynistic in a generic way, but a Morlock too?
10-23-2017 08:35 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #2091
RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 08:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  It always amazes me that intelligent people will buy this hook, line, and sinker.

I long ago ceased to be surprised by the delusions of supposedly intelligent people. The "intelligent" classes in the West spent over 70 years making excuses for the savagery and terror of communism ("It's a good theory, it was just mis-applied"), and depressingly many still do.

To be clear, I have only ceased to be surprised; I have not ceased to be discouraged by it.

A recent book review (of sorts) hits the nail on the head: "It was not a good idea that somehow went wrong or withered away. It was a very bad idea from the outset, and one forced into life — or the life of the undead — with barely imaginable self-righteousness, pedantry, dynamism, and horror." See https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/16/books...ution.html
10-23-2017 09:21 AM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #2092
RE: Trump Administration
(10-22-2017 07:01 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 02:25 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.

FWIW, almost all the entrepreneurs and small business people I know are conservatives. Of course, I don't live in Austin.

I wouldn't argue with George's point about Austin being conformist, as are many cities with a dominant culture. I found Houston that way when I first moved back there after Austin. But maybe I just fit better in Austin than Houston so I was "pre-conforming" more to the former.

Anyway, my point is not that most MBAs or most entrepenuers are left-leaning - it was refuting this idea that "the left" has this contempt for entrepenuers and small businesses. A (very liberal) friend of mine this past weekend announced he's starting his own small business. The reaction from his friends, mostly very liberal, was not "What? You are a deplorable now! Why don't you move to College Station?" It was "Congratulations! Good luck!"

And back to the conformism bit - I'm not sure any aspect of Austin is more conformist than the almost religious loyalty to small local businesses. People who are going out of their way to support small businesses can't very well also hold them in contempt.


(Also, I was referring to people I know pretty well and with whom I have had quad like discussions - it's not conformism, they simply have a different outlook on these issues.)
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2017 01:12 PM by JustAnotherAustinOwl.)
10-23-2017 01:03 PM
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Post: #2093
RE: Trump Administration
(10-21-2017 10:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't think I've ever heard anyone take it to mean, "Obama said I didn't work hard and he disrespected me." I don't think anyone takes it that personally. I think the message, "Obama is too collectivist for my taste," is sufficient to support any and all of the opposition that I've seen and heard, here or elsewhere.

That was the whole point - Romney had incensed "small business people" at his rallies holding signs saying "Yes I did build this!" and giving interviews about how personally insulted they were.

And I don't know what the point of OO's posts about Lad and I not being in court with him and signing the loan, etc. are if not to imply some sort of lack of respect for his hard work.

Anyway, I'm going to try and retire from this subject again. I can't believe the bandwith we've all spent on an issue from the 2012 election. An intervention may be warranted. :-)
10-23-2017 01:11 PM
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Post: #2094
RE: Trump Administration
Stealing from a friend's facebook page:

"The President of the United States is now publicly accusing the widow of a soldier killed in action of lying about how awesome his condolence call to her was."

This whole episode is so strange and so many own goals. Trump denies the original story. Kelly more or less confirms it, trump tweets a denial again the next day. Kelly, as a decorated veteran and gold star father probably could have put it to bed, but instead adds some ad hominem attacks on the Dem rep involved. That turned out to be fabricated. And he adds some weird out of context culture war commentary. And the White House's official line when Kelly's lies are caught is "don't question a four star general?"

And I left out the part where Trump lied about Obama (and Bush) not calling families. And the part where after Trump claimed he was calling almost all families, the WH scrambled to get a list so he could call them.
10-23-2017 01:24 PM
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Post: #2095
RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I wouldn't argue with George's point about Austin being conformist, as are many cities with a dominant culture. I found Houston that way when I first moved back there after Austin. But maybe I just fit better in Austin than Houston so I was "pre-conforming" more to the former.

The level of conformism in the two cities is not even close to comparable. Austin is one of the most conformist places in the country. It obviously has many positive qualities, but that is not one of them.

(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  (Also, I was referring to people I know pretty well and with whom I have had quad like discussions - it's not conformism, they simply have a different outlook on these issues.)

I understand that. But I suspect that one reason your sample turned up nothing but declared Democrats is, in addition to the natural tendency of people to select friends who are similar to themselves, the extreme social pressure in Austin to publicly identify as a Democrat.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2017 01:30 PM by georgewebb.)
10-23-2017 01:24 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2096
RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 07:01 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-22-2017 02:25 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 08:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  ... almost all the entrepeneurs and small business people I know, other than my chiropractor, are Dems...
That might be chiefly because you live in Austin. There is a lot of pressure to conform in that city. It may be the most conformist place I have ever lived or worked.

FWIW, almost all the entrepreneurs and small business people I know are conservatives. Of course, I don't live in Austin.

I wouldn't argue with George's point about Austin being conformist, as are many cities with a dominant culture. I found Houston that way when I first moved back there after Austin. But maybe I just fit better in Austin than Houston so I was "pre-conforming" more to the former.

Anyway, my point is not that most MBAs or most entrepenuers are left-leaning - it was refuting this idea that "the left" has this contempt for entrepenuers and small businesses. A (very liberal) friend of mine this past weekend announced he's starting his own small business. The reaction from his friends, mostly very liberal, was not "What? You are a deplorable now! Why don't you move to College Station?" It was "Congratulations! Good luck!"

And back to the conformism bit - I'm not sure any aspect of Austin is more conformist than the almost religious loyalty to small local businesses. People who are going out of their way to support small businesses can't very well also hold them in contempt.


(Also, I was referring to people I know pretty well and with whom I have had quad like discussions - it's not conformism, they simply have a different outlook on these issues.)

I don't know anything about Austin except it has a great music scene, a lot of politicians, and a lot of arrogant students at "The University".

I live in a rural area, but a lot of my social life is in the DFW area, the Metroplex. Usually politics are not discussed, but sometimes somebody brings it up and when they do the reactions are overwhelmingly conservative.

The people I am talking about are generally contractors of one sort or another or retired. One lady who is vociferously pro-trump is an independent insurance agent. They all seem to agree that NFL players should stand for the Anthem and a tax cut is a good thing. This from a mix of black, white, Hispanic and Asian men and women. It includes one Muslim (legal) immigrant from Iran.

While not everybody is a right winger and not everybody, right or left, likes Trump, I cannot think of a single person as far left as you seem think is the norm. Maybe they are there and they just keep their opinions to themselves, exactly as I would do if I lived in Austin.
10-23-2017 03:00 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2097
RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 01:11 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(10-21-2017 10:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't think I've ever heard anyone take it to mean, "Obama said I didn't work hard and he disrespected me." I don't think anyone takes it that personally. I think the message, "Obama is too collectivist for my taste," is sufficient to support any and all of the opposition that I've seen and heard, here or elsewhere.

That was the whole point - Romney had incensed "small business people" at his rallies holding signs saying "Yes I did build this!" and giving interviews about how personally insulted they were.

And I don't know what the point of OO's posts about Lad and I not being in court with him and signing the loan, etc. are if not to imply some sort of lack of respect for his hard work.

Anyway, I'm going to try and retire from this subject again. I can't believe the bandwith we've all spent on an issue from the 2012 election. An intervention may be warranted. :-)

You just don't get it, do you?

yeah, I built it, and yeah, I had help, but not from the people insisting "I didn't build it".

If we are retiring from old issues, I expect to never see the word "birther" again. OK?
10-23-2017 03:03 PM
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Post: #2098
RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 01:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I wouldn't argue with George's point about Austin being conformist, as are many cities with a dominant culture. I found Houston that way when I first moved back there after Austin. But maybe I just fit better in Austin than Houston so I was "pre-conforming" more to the former.

The level of conformism in the two cities is not even close to comparable. Austin is one of the most conformist places in the country. It obviously has many positive qualities, but that is not one of them.

(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  (Also, I was referring to people I know pretty well and with whom I have had quad like discussions - it's not conformism, they simply have a different outlook on these issues.)

I understand that. But I suspect that one reason your sample turned up nothing but declared Democrats is, in addition to the natural tendency of people to select friends who are similar to themselves, the extreme social pressure in Austin to publicly identify as a Democrat.

Fan of Austin, but miss the melting pot of Houston.

In my experience, Austin conformity tends to follow the city's economically segregated housing patterns. Once you get into west or northwest Austin, you have more diversity of political opinion.

If you visit Northwest Little League on any given spring night (between 2222 and Anderson Lane, just east of MoPac, so central Austin these days) you'll even find a few Abbott bumper stickers for all the world to see.
10-23-2017 04:27 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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RE: Trump Administration
First Bob Corker from Tennessee and now Jeff Flake from Arizona have said they will not seek reelection next year.
10-24-2017 02:15 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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RE: Trump Administration
(10-23-2017 04:27 PM)ausowl Wrote:  
(10-23-2017 01:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I wouldn't argue with George's point about Austin being conformist, as are many cities with a dominant culture. I found Houston that way when I first moved back there after Austin. But maybe I just fit better in Austin than Houston so I was "pre-conforming" more to the former.

The level of conformism in the two cities is not even close to comparable. Austin is one of the most conformist places in the country. It obviously has many positive qualities, but that is not one of them.

(10-23-2017 01:03 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  (Also, I was referring to people I know pretty well and with whom I have had quad like discussions - it's not conformism, they simply have a different outlook on these issues.)

I understand that. But I suspect that one reason your sample turned up nothing but declared Democrats is, in addition to the natural tendency of people to select friends who are similar to themselves, the extreme social pressure in Austin to publicly identify as a Democrat.

Fan of Austin, but miss the melting pot of Houston.

In my experience, Austin conformity tends to follow the city's economically segregated housing patterns. Once you get into west or northwest Austin, you have more diversity of political opinion.

If you visit Northwest Little League on any given spring night (between 2222 and Anderson Lane, just east of MoPac, so central Austin these days) you'll even find a few Abbott bumper stickers for all the world to see.

If by *more* diversity you go from 98 per cent blue to 60 per cent blue you would be correct.

The only places that vote red in Austin are the far western edges of SW Parkway towards Dripping Springs (consistently) and portions of Westlake (inconsistently) (Westlake isnt part of Austin, mind you.)

One ares that flips from time time is portions of Tarrytown around Camp Mabry.

Here is a great map of the 2008, 2012, and 2016 Presidential elections by precinct (highly granular, far more than congressional districts). I can find nothing but solid "big win" blue precincts in almost every area of the city. Even the ones that go blue by no more than a percentage point is hard to find.

https://decisiondeskhq.com/data-dives/cr...cinct-map/

Sorry, Austin is a monolith of blue in every way, shape, and form overall. In terms of voting, Austin is as lockstep as Berkeley.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2017 03:36 PM by tanqtonic.)
10-24-2017 03:29 PM
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