(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

You don't expect a realistic answer do you? Those kind of answers can't be gleaned from the leftist talking points being put out there right now. Just like the electricity still being out for the majority of the island was a talking point for FBO's rant about the Jones Act despite the fact that you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

I swear people root for human misery so that they can complain about it.

(10-12-2017 01:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

Obama could

(10-12-2017 01:58 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 01:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

Obama could

I wouldn't know.....he never showed up in SC after the flooding in 2015 or Hurricane Matthew in 2016.

(10-12-2017 01:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

You don't expect a realistic answer do you? Those kind of answers can't be gleaned from the leftist talking points being put out there right now. Just like the electricity still being out for the majority of the island was a talking point for FBO's rant about the Jones Act despite the fact that you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

No but their economy will go nowhere without electricity. They have no way to pay for their bills. The last thing we need to do is to be charging a broke country even more for commodities like oil and other goods. Any other country besides Puerto Rico is being charged less for products from the U.S. than Puerto Rico.

In fact, economists have estimated that just from 1970 to 2012, the Jones Act raised the costs of bringing all sorts of goods into Puerto Rico by nearly $29 billion.

It's an old law, we don't need to be getting rich off Puerto Rico.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/1...overy.html

(10-11-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?
In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

(10-12-2017 02:05 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 01:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

You don't expect a realistic answer do you? Those kind of answers can't be gleaned from the leftist talking points being put out there right now. Just like the electricity still being out for the majority of the island was a talking point for FBO's rant about the Jones Act despite the fact that you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

No but their economy will go nowhere without electricity. They have no way to pay for their bills. The last thing we need to do is to be charging a broke country even more for commodities like oil and other goods. Any other country besides Puerto Rico is being charged less for products from the U.S. than Puerto Rico.

In fact, economists have estimated that just from 1970 to 2012, the Jones Act raised the costs of bringing all sorts of goods into Puerto Rico by nearly $29 billion.

It's an old law, we don't need to be getting rich off Puerto Rico.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/1...overy.html

So why wasn't the Jones Act an issue when Obama was in office and when Democrats held overwhelming majorities in both houses of Congress?


AT this point there is no need for a temporary lifting of the act because the problem on the island remains the fact that due to third world level infrastructure BEFORE the hurricane the roads are still closed. There is absolutely nothing that a merchant ship flying a foreign flag can do to remedy that.

At this point the questions about he Jones Act should be directed to the legislative branch because what you are proposing, a repeal, isn't a function of the executive branch.


Now unless you can point out concrete evidence of how the Jones Act is hindering the relief efforts you would probably best be served by dropping that talking point and trying to find another one.

(10-12-2017 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?
In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer. The truth is out there. Stop refusing to accept it.

-They waited too long to address the problems.
-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.
-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.
-They waited too long to get money sent.
-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.
-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.
-They let the Jones Act expire.
-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.
-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.
-And myriad others.

And it's only going to get worse now that people are being forced to drink contaminated water to survive.

And just wait. The official death toll is about to go through the roof when they stop hiding the other deaths as not related!

But by all means...keep thinking that trump is doing his best. History will sort it out...and it won't be kind.

(10-12-2017 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?
In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer. The truth is out there. Stop refusing to accept it.

-They waited too long to address the problems.
-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.
-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.
-They waited too long to get money sent.
-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.
-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.
-They let the Jones Act expire.
-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.
-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.
-And myriad others.

And it's only going to get worse now that people are being forced to drink contaminated water to survive.

And just wait. The official death toll is about to go through the roof when they stop hiding the other deaths as not related!

But by all means...keep thinking that trump is doing his best. History will sort it out...and it won't be kind.

Yeah, about that boat. Kind of hard to send a boat out when the hurricane was still churning in the Atlantic. Anything to complain about I guess.

(10-12-2017 02:17 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 02:05 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 01:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Death toll rises to 45.
I wonder which NFL game trump and pence are planning to pull a stunt at this weekend?

Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?

In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

You don't expect a realistic answer do you? Those kind of answers can't be gleaned from the leftist talking points being put out there right now. Just like the electricity still being out for the majority of the island was a talking point for FBO's rant about the Jones Act despite the fact that you can't deliver electricity on a merchant ship regardless of which country's flag it flies.

No but their economy will go nowhere without electricity. They have no way to pay for their bills. The last thing we need to do is to be charging a broke country even more for commodities like oil and other goods. Any other country besides Puerto Rico is being charged less for products from the U.S. than Puerto Rico.

In fact, economists have estimated that just from 1970 to 2012, the Jones Act raised the costs of bringing all sorts of goods into Puerto Rico by nearly $29 billion.

It's an old law, we don't need to be getting rich off Puerto Rico.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/1...overy.html

So why wasn't the Jones Act an issue when Obama was in office and when Democrats held overwhelming majorities in both houses of Congress?


AT this point there is no need for a temporary lifting of the act because the problem on the island remains the fact that due to third world level infrastructure BEFORE the hurricane the roads are still closed. There is absolutely nothing that a merchant ship flying a foreign flag can do to remedy that.

At this point the questions about he Jones Act should be directed to the legislative branch because what you are proposing, a repeal, isn't a function of the executive branch.


Now unless you can point out concrete evidence of how the Jones Act is hindering the relief efforts you would probably best be served by dropping that talking point and trying to find another one.

I have nothing else to add. Except ironically seven years ago the Heritage Foundation was trying to figure out why President Obama wasn't lifting the Jones Act after the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. They noted Bush lifted the Jones Act for 18 days after Katrina but Obama wouldn't do it after the oil spill. And this was almost 3 months after the spill.

So I guess the general consensus then must be the Jones Act is liberal politics, and lifting it is the proper conservative thing to do. So I guess it's just another reason why Trump is too liberal for all of you.

http://www.heritage.org/environment/comm...-jones-act

(10-12-2017 03:20 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Puerto Rico is a terrible tragedy and a hell of a mess. You seem to be wanting to say that Trump could do something he is not doing to make it better. What would that be?
In fact, just a generic question, how could the response be better?

He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer. The truth is out there. Stop refusing to accept it.

-They waited too long to address the problems.
-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.
-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.
-They waited too long to get money sent.
-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.
-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.
-They let the Jones Act expire.
-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.
-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.
-And myriad others.

And it's only going to get worse now that people are being forced to drink contaminated water to survive.

And just wait. The official death toll is about to go through the roof when they stop hiding the other deaths as not related!

But by all means...keep thinking that trump is doing his best. History will sort it out...and it won't be kind.

Yeah, about that boat. Kind of hard to send a boat out when the hurricane was still churning in the Atlantic. Anything to complain about I guess.

Why do you guys continually suspend reality just to make these idiotic points. No dude, no one is saying the ship should have been in PR waters when the hurricane was still there. FFS!

Another dumb troll tweet.

"...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/stat...9282342912

(10-12-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:20 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  He should have thrown toilet paper at them too.

That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer. The truth is out there. Stop refusing to accept it.

-They waited too long to address the problems.
-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.
-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.
-They waited too long to get money sent.
-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.
-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.
-They let the Jones Act expire.
-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.
-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.
-And myriad others.

And it's only going to get worse now that people are being forced to drink contaminated water to survive.

And just wait. The official death toll is about to go through the roof when they stop hiding the other deaths as not related!

But by all means...keep thinking that trump is doing his best. History will sort it out...and it won't be kind.

Yeah, about that boat. Kind of hard to send a boat out when the hurricane was still churning in the Atlantic. Anything to complain about I guess.

Why do you guys continually suspend reality just to make these idiotic points. No dude, no one is saying the ship should have been in PR waters when the hurricane was still there. FFS!

Ok, so when should it have been sent?

Quote:-They waited too long to address the problems.

What problems dd they wait too long to address?

They had FEMA USAR and Canine search & Rescue teams on the island the days before landfall, along with a DOD coordination team, a HHS disaster medical response team. The day after landfall helicopters from the USS Kearsage and the USS Oak Hill were doing search and rescue flights and aerial damage assessments. Two days after landfall 7000 federal government personnel were on the island. Three days after landfall the Defense Logistics Agency was transporting almost 125,000 gallons of diesel fuel to the island. Six days after landfall the US Coast Guard opened eight ports on the island with restrictions.

Quote:-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.

When should they have sent it? Was the Comfort sitting in port ready to go? Fully stocked and staffed with all repairs she needed completed? Was there a port capable of handling the ship operational? Until you can answer each of those questions you can't say that they waited too long.

Quote:-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.

When did the Governor of Puerto Rico request the military and/or National Guard to get involved?

And the military was involved prior to landfall.

Quote:-They waited too long to get money sent.

When exactly should they have sent the money?

Quote:-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.

News flash.....they never send enough money and it's always a loan.

Quote:-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.

What good would it have done to lift the Jones Act sooner when there weren't any ports open to offload supplies?

Quote:-They let the Jones Act expire.

As they should have. The delivery of supplies to the island isn't the problem now, it's getting them to the interior in ways other than by air. Unless a foreign government has a special ship that can sail on land then lifting the Jones Act is not needed at this time.

Quote:-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.

I'll worry about that when we finally get the visit from Obama touring the damaged areas in SC from the Joaquim flooding in 2015 or the Hurricane Matthew damage in 2016. Sure as hell didn't get any empathy from that administration, but now empathy is a major concern.

Quote:-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.

Brock Long has a long and distinguished career in emergency management at the local, state, federal, and private sector levels. His experience speaks for itself.

As for qualifications, I would say that LTG Jeff Buchanan is just as "qualified" as Honore' was prior to Katrina.

I would also say that the only reason you even know the name Honore' is because of the general's frequent self-serving appearances on CNN.

(10-12-2017 03:45 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Another dumb troll tweet.

"...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/stat...9282342912

Really, they should stay in PR forever? Not allowed to go back home? How about a draft and force people to serve in PR?

(10-12-2017 03:45 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Another dumb troll tweet.

"...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/stat...9282342912

It's not a troll tweet, it's the absolute truth.

Over 85% of FEMA's disaster relief forces are actively deployed right now, with most having been in active deployment for over a month primarily due to Harvey, Irma, Maria, and the Cali wildfires but also local small events you haven't heard of. There is a human endurance limit to how long they can continue to operate and it's rapidly approaching. It would be nice to send in the reserves but we've already used them up.

There's also a limit as to how long the military can stay deployed. Due to cuts during the Obama error we don't have the active duty manpower to handle long term recovery efforts as the lead agency. At some point the state & local government and private sector has to take over.

And that doesn't even begin to cover the fact that there's a limit to how long you can operate the equipment being used.....helicopters, ships, planes, etc. at the tempo we've been using it this past month without having to shut down and do maintenance.

(10-12-2017 03:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:20 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That is about the level of intelligence and understanding that I would expect from you.

Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer. The truth is out there. Stop refusing to accept it.

-They waited too long to address the problems.
-They waited too long to send the USN Comfort.
-They waited too long to get military or the guard involved.
-They waited too long to get money sent.
-They aren't going to send enough money and the pittance they are going to send is a damned loan.
-They waited too long to set aside the Jones Act.
-They let the Jones Act expire.
-Trump shows no empathy towards anyone. Granted it doesn't result in physical things, but it sure goes a hell of a long way in getting others to aid in the cause. And jetting off to his damned golf courses and bitching about the stupid NFL while Americans are dying in hospitals that can't adequately function isn't inspiring much confidence in anything he does.
-They never put anyone really qualified in charge of the whole thing like Russel L. Honoré with Katrina.
-And myriad others.

And it's only going to get worse now that people are being forced to drink contaminated water to survive.

And just wait. The official death toll is about to go through the roof when they stop hiding the other deaths as not related!

But by all means...keep thinking that trump is doing his best. History will sort it out...and it won't be kind.

Yeah, about that boat. Kind of hard to send a boat out when the hurricane was still churning in the Atlantic. Anything to complain about I guess.

Why do you guys continually suspend reality just to make these idiotic points. No dude, no one is saying the ship should have been in PR waters when the hurricane was still there. FFS!

Ok, so when should it have been sent?

Since it takes several days to get there, it probably could have been sent as soon as the storm hit in all actuality...as soon as the storm was on the gulf side of Florida.

And further on this...now that it's there...with the capability to treat like 800 patients, it was reported yesterday that only 8 patients were being seen. Unacceptable.

The feds are now in PR to investigate and indict criminal democratic leaders who have been hoarding supplies for the people and keeping for themselves and their cronies.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/12/fbi...plies.html