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Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
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Djud Offline
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Post: #201
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
7. My main point was to highlight the magnitude that one play has had. Who knows what would have happened if we would have run our go to "delay to Wineman" at that time; it worked for Graham and Childers in similar situations. I am done with the "ifs". I do agree that Childers running is a huge plus, which may ultimately tip the scale in his direction.
I still maintain that if you're that Hall is the future, and the future starts next; this same stable of QBs won't be here next year.
10-10-2017 11:39 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #202
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
Oh I’ll be shocked if somebody (likely Childers, santa, or both) don’t transfer in the offseason
10-10-2017 11:56 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #203
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 11:30 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

Yea it's pretty close between those 2. Looking at the Kent game, all I know is that Childers can hit short passes when the guy is wide open. And we don't really know that he'll do any better when it comes to interceptions yet (especially throwing over the middle), though he'll have less pressure there since he's a more capable runner if the play breaks down.
I do think his running ability will provide for easier reads which should cut down on mistakes.

What I don’t get is, it’s not like santa can’t move. Not sure why they are calling almost zero designed runs for him.
10-10-2017 11:58 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #204
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
Doesn’t sound like graham is ready. I would count on a Santa and Childers combo
10-10-2017 12:25 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #205
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 11:58 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:30 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

Yea it's pretty close between those 2. Looking at the Kent game, all I know is that Childers can hit short passes when the guy is wide open. And we don't really know that he'll do any better when it comes to interceptions yet (especially throwing over the middle), though he'll have less pressure there since he's a more capable runner if the play breaks down.
I do think his running ability will provide for easier reads which should cut down on mistakes.

What I don’t get is, it’s not like santa can’t move. Not sure why they are calling almost zero designed runs for him.

I wondered that also, though it does seem like he's moving slower this year, unless I'm just imagining it. But someone else noticed that too. Maybe they're waiting for Graham to be available, in case it gets Santa injured.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 12:37 PM by NIU007.)
10-10-2017 12:36 PM
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bikechuck Offline
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Post: #206
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 12:25 PM)7 Wrote:  Doesn’t sound like graham is ready. I would count on a Santa and Childers combo

The more I think about the Buffalo game the more I think that Childers will start that game. NIU needs to run the ball, run it again and then run it some more to keep the ball out of the hands of the Buffalo QB and their potent offense and Childers is the better runner.

If we get down by two scores they might go back to Santa. Carey is a very situational type of guy, no one has really done enough to clearly stake a claim to the position an I would bet that the above or something very much like it becomes the game plan on offense this Saturday.
10-10-2017 12:43 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #207
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 12:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:58 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:30 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

Yea it's pretty close between those 2. Looking at the Kent game, all I know is that Childers can hit short passes when the guy is wide open. And we don't really know that he'll do any better when it comes to interceptions yet (especially throwing over the middle), though he'll have less pressure there since he's a more capable runner if the play breaks down.
I do think his running ability will provide for easier reads which should cut down on mistakes.

What I don’t get is, it’s not like santa can’t move. Not sure why they are calling almost zero designed runs for him.

I wondered that also, though it does seem like he's moving slower this year, unless I'm just imagining it. But someone else noticed that too. Maybe they're waiting for Graham to be available, in case it gets Santa injured.
Might have been me. I thought he was a talented runner but most of his runs remind me of Graaham, although Graham runs more upright.

I was concerned that Santa took some shots due to what I see as lack of speed or elusiveness. Surprised me as I thought he had more running talent than what I see this year. Has he had a run where you just went "wow!" Or made a defender miss? I don't think so.

When we compare Childer we are seeing power and speed. He is pushing the pile, getting extra yards and keeping drives alive. Generally keeping the defenses attention.

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10-10-2017 12:47 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #208
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 11:56 AM)7 Wrote:  Oh I’ll be shocked if somebody (likely Childers, santa, or both) don’t transfer in the offseason
Perhaps, but it is not that they have a tremendous number of other opportunities based upon their lack of passing strength. The grass isn't greener. This job is open and they are all getting a fair, very fair chance to claim the starting job.

History shows that injuries happen and even if they aren't the starter they may end up getting significant playing time anyways.

The fact that we have 5 qbs now and a 6th to be added next year means you might be right.

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10-10-2017 12:55 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #209
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 10:34 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:15 PM)HuskieJoe Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 06:20 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  If anything I think the QB play up to this point has proven Carey and the coaching staff out. It was not as clear cut as all the QB coaching gurus on here thought it was. At times it seemed that one of them had taken hold of the job only to give it back. IIRC, one poster said he heard (during summer camp) a coach yell at Santa after an interception and say something along the lines of don't just wing it. Seems like good advice that still needs to be reiterated.

Maybe we need a 3 headed monster. Graham in/near the redzone for his short passing game, Santa and Childers to share the rest of the field with Santa as the bomber and Childers the runner. LOL

Truth

Graham can run some, may be a more accurate passer and better decision maker but doesn't have good deep ball skills.

Santa doesn't seem to run as much and can make some great throws. He also a bit of that Jay Cutler gunslinger in him that can lead to turnovers.

Childers is a good runner but doesn't seem to have good deep ball skills either.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and no one has asserted themselves as the obvious choice. That's not on Carey not being able to make a good decision, it's the reality of the QB talent we have.

+100 to both of these posts.
It works in baseball for pitching so maybe the idea isnt far-fetched. (Although Dusty baker took some heat for his decision the other nite removing a pitcher after giving up 1 hit in 7 innings, but thats another thread)

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10-10-2017 01:00 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #210
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
One positive from all this, the opposing D coordinators have to prepare for at least 2 very different style QBs.
10-10-2017 01:02 PM
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Post: #211
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-07-2017 10:37 PM)NIU84 Wrote:  Buddy who knew of Santa at Geneva HS believes this is what u get. Players like him and rally on him, but his skills are abit limited and mistakes come with the package. He is not a guy to carry the team consistently. Seems like we are seeing a repeat of his HS career.

I'd love to hear how Graham and Childers were perceived in HS. anyone?

I was surprised that we did not get some input about Graham, but not about Childers in high school. I only saw Santa play in 1 high school game; his senior year against Batavia. He had the good (I had to look back to find he had 277 yards passing) and the bad (5 picks, including 2 pick 6s). He had already committed to NIU at that time; my impression was he is a bit of a gunslinger, and you have to take the bad with the good. Of course, 1 game does not tell the tale, but Santa’s high school stats from max preps pretty much confirms the good with the bad.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/daniel-s...-stats.htm

For me the significant QB stats are completion percentage and TD v. interception ratio; Santa had a good completion percentage, but a bad TD v. interception ratio; note, are these stats accurate? Santa’s 65% completion percentage this year is excellent (Childers is 61%, but he has not thrown enough passes, and his passes were in bad weather conditions), but the 6 TDs to 5 picks is very bad, and the statement that we may be seeing a repeat of his high school career from NIU84 based on what his buddy told him could a fair one, although IMO too early to tell. Of course, looking back to high school stats is not a good measure; some players excel in college and others don’t, plus there are so many variables in high school football, like how good are the WRs, how good is the running game, the O-line protection, etc. Oh yea, I could not find Graham’s or Childers’s high school stats.

We may be seeing a what have you done for us lately perspective with Santa, including by the coaches. He had a very good game against EIU; and did a great job of not making mistakes against Nebraska, and when we were behind made 2 big-time passes to set up the winning TD. The lately starts with the SDSU game; Santa was 23-37 for 262 yards and 3 TDs (the good), but had 3 picks (the bad). I don’t hold the last pick against Santa, which was a desperation last drive pick. However, the other 2 hurt, and was a 14-point (or at least 10-pont) turnaround. Then against Kent State Santa could not move the O (but the weather conditions were so bad), and then he throws a pick in the end zone, a 7 or 3-point turnaround early in the game. Is it surprising that Carey, a very conservative coach, gave Santa the hook, after the 2 costly picks in the SDSU game?

Most like the running dimension of Childers and what it brings to the table, as I do. But what about Santa’s running? We know he can run; he had 13 carries for 91 yards (7 yards per carry) against EMU last year, so we know he can run, and he sure looks very athletic. He did not run much in high school; I am sure that was the coaches not wanting to get him hurt – someone here can confirm that. Santa has run very little this year, and it clearly appears that is the coaches not wanting to get him hurt. However, we now know that we have a viable alternative in Childers.

So, after thinking about this here is my resolution – start and open the play book for Santa; have him run the read option, etc. Won’t his running threat then loosen up the defense for his passing and help with cutting down the mistakes? By doing this we may get good part of Santa (passing), help to limit the bad decisions/picks, and get the good of Santa running also. This seems like a plan that could work; would it and would the coaches do this remains to be seen.
10-10-2017 01:02 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #212
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
To really Screw with the D, put both Santa AND Childers in at the same time. COGS Double Barrel shotgun formation.
10-10-2017 01:05 PM
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armour248 Offline
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Post: #213
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
I know some people that are pretty well connected/informed on WWS football and they were surprised that Graham ever saw the field at the QB position. Maybe they thought we would have better talent at that position after having Harnish, Lynch, Hare...but either way, they didn't think he'd be a starting QB at NIU.
10-10-2017 01:07 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #214
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 01:02 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  One positive from all this, the opposing D coordinators have to prepare for at least 2 very different style QBs.
Not all 3?

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10-10-2017 01:26 PM
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HuskiePride12 Offline
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Post: #215
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 11:58 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:30 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

Yea it's pretty close between those 2. Looking at the Kent game, all I know is that Childers can hit short passes when the guy is wide open. And we don't really know that he'll do any better when it comes to interceptions yet (especially throwing over the middle), though he'll have less pressure there since he's a more capable runner if the play breaks down.
I do think his running ability will provide for easier reads which should cut down on mistakes.

What I don’t get is, it’s not like santa can’t move. Not sure why they are calling almost zero designed runs for him.

Been thinking the same thing. I think it was EMU last year where he was running pretty damn good the whole game. He is pretty quick too, much better than Hare and I even thought Graham at running.
10-10-2017 01:42 PM
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NIUSAE Offline
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Post: #216
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
Santa definitely was a more aggressive runner in last years EMU and KSU games. He was as head knocking as JL was the way he was attacking tacklers. Have not seen that this year at all. Maybe it's coaching staff induced to try to stay away from more injuries. If Santa goes down we are at QB's #'s 3 and 4 and might not have much of a passing game.

In rewatching Childers TD pass to Tears, it was supposed to be a wheel route to Wiman with a pick by Tears but that didn't happen so Wimann was covered but Tears was open starting on the 8 yard line. The pass was completed but Childers never fully gets his feet readjusted so the pass is slighty behind Tears and almost knocked down by the db. Point being it's a game of inches and Childers still probably doesn't yet have the fundamentals down pat.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 03:32 PM by NIUSAE.)
10-10-2017 03:23 PM
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Post: #217
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Santa definitely was a more aggressive runner in last years EMU and KSU games. He was as head knocking as JL was the way he was attacking tacklers. Have not seen that this year at all. Maybe it's coaching staff induced to try to stay away from more injuries. If Santa goes down we are at QB's #'s 3 and 4 and might not have much of a passing game.

In rewatching Childers TD pass to Tears, it was supposed to be a wheel route to Wiman with a pick by Tears but that didn't happen so Wimann was covered but Tears was open starting on the 8 yard line. The pass was completed but Childers never fully gets his feet readjusted so the pass is slighty behind Tears and almost knocked down by the db. Point being it's a game of inches and Childers still probably doesn't yet have the fundamentals down pat.

Here is one thing to keep in mind, Santa could not physically perform in those conditions, he had to be pulled because he literally could not perform. Childers came in and did the job where Santa could not. Not easy to play in tropical storm force winds, but Childers was the QB that was able to do it. I think a part of it is that Santa's hands are too small. The ball was wet, he could not physically hold onto it. Hare suffered from this problem to some degree also
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 04:54 PM by MaddDawgz02.)
10-10-2017 04:49 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #218
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 04:49 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Santa definitely was a more aggressive runner in last years EMU and KSU games. He was as head knocking as JL was the way he was attacking tacklers. Have not seen that this year at all. Maybe it's coaching staff induced to try to stay away from more injuries. If Santa goes down we are at QB's #'s 3 and 4 and might not have much of a passing game.

In rewatching Childers TD pass to Tears, it was supposed to be a wheel route to Wiman with a pick by Tears but that didn't happen so Wimann was covered but Tears was open starting on the 8 yard line. The pass was completed but Childers never fully gets his feet readjusted so the pass is slighty behind Tears and almost knocked down by the db. Point being it's a game of inches and Childers still probably doesn't yet have the fundamentals down pat.

Here is one thing to keep in mind, Santa could not physically perform in those conditions, he had to be pulled because he literally could not perform. Childers came in and did the job where Santa could not. Not easy to play in tropical storm force winds, but Childers was the QB that was able to do it. I think a part of it is that Santa's hands are too small. The ball was wet, he could not physically hold onto it. Hare suffered from this problem to some degree also
Go back and look at Childer's passes. The ball came out of his hand sideways and everywhich way more often than not. Blame the wet ball or wind or his mechanics. I'm not sure.

Yes he ran the offense but his running was the difference over Santa in this game.

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10-10-2017 05:00 PM
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Post: #219
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 05:00 PM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 04:49 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Santa definitely was a more aggressive runner in last years EMU and KSU games. He was as head knocking as JL was the way he was attacking tacklers. Have not seen that this year at all. Maybe it's coaching staff induced to try to stay away from more injuries. If Santa goes down we are at QB's #'s 3 and 4 and might not have much of a passing game.

In rewatching Childers TD pass to Tears, it was supposed to be a wheel route to Wiman with a pick by Tears but that didn't happen so Wimann was covered but Tears was open starting on the 8 yard line. The pass was completed but Childers never fully gets his feet readjusted so the pass is slighty behind Tears and almost knocked down by the db. Point being it's a game of inches and Childers still probably doesn't yet have the fundamentals down pat.

Here is one thing to keep in mind, Santa could not physically perform in those conditions, he had to be pulled because he literally could not perform. Childers came in and did the job where Santa could not. Not easy to play in tropical storm force winds, but Childers was the QB that was able to do it. I think a part of it is that Santa's hands are too small. The ball was wet, he could not physically hold onto it. Hare suffered from this problem to some degree also
Go back and look at Childer's passes. The ball came out of his hand sideways and everywhich way more often than not. Blame the wet ball or wind or his mechanics. I'm not sure.

Yes he ran the offense but his running was the difference over Santa in this game.

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Santa could not grip the ball at all, I applaud Carey for making the switch because NIU wouldn't have scored a TD with Santa in the game.
10-10-2017 05:03 PM
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Djud Offline
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Post: #220
RE: Marcus Childers - is he the guy?
(10-10-2017 04:49 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Santa definitely was a more aggressive runner in last years EMU and KSU games. He was as head knocking as JL was the way he was attacking tacklers. Have not seen that this year at all. Maybe it's coaching staff induced to try to stay away from more injuries. If Santa goes down we are at QB's #'s 3 and 4 and might not have much of a passing game.

In rewatching Childers TD pass to Tears, it was supposed to be a wheel route to Wiman with a pick by Tears but that didn't happen so Wimann was covered but Tears was open starting on the 8 yard line. The pass was completed but Childers never fully gets his feet readjusted so the pass is slighty behind Tears and almost knocked down by the db. Point being it's a game of inches and Childers still probably doesn't yet have the fundamentals down pat.

Here is one thing to keep in mind, Santa could not physically perform in those conditions, he had to be pulled because he literally could not perform. Childers came in and did the job where Santa could not. Not easy to play in tropical storm force winds, but Childers was the QB that was able to do it.

What does this even mean? He could not physically perform.? Santa had 9 plays; he had had nothing open on 3 pass plays, so he took the sack or ran; exactly what everyone is asking him to do when the playis not there. He made 1 pass that was well thrown, but a poor decision; it was thrown into double coverage and the DB made an incredible athletic play. He had one play where the ball was knock from his grasp that he regained control of. Carey said Childers was coming in the 3rd series regardless. When Santa came back in we were moving the balli until he made threw the pick; at that point Carey decided to go the rest of the way with Childers. Not sure where the hell you're going with this one.
10-10-2017 05:04 PM
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