(10-09-2017 06:07 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  When Graham is healthy again he is going to play. Accept it and move on. None of our QBs are good.

That's a bit harsh and premature.

Santa and Childers have not yet played enough football to conclude they are "no good". Both have shown talent and ability and both would benefit and likely improve from additional live game action.

Graham is a quality person and has leadership ability but he has not progressed as a QB with playing time so I think that his upside is likely very limited. I hope that Carey does not go back to him as a starter this year and I hope that he chooses a clear number one QB (either Santa or Childers) going forward. The backup needs some playing time so they are ready if needed. However at this time Graham would be my number 3.

(10-09-2017 06:32 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:07 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  When Graham is healthy again he is going to play. Accept it and move on. None of our QBs are good.

That's a bit harsh and premature.

Santa and Childers have not yet played enough football to conclude they are "no good". Both have shown talent and ability and both would benefit and likely improve from additional live game action.

Graham is a quality person and has leadership ability but he has not progressed as a QB with playing time so I think that his upside is likely very limited. I hope that Carey does not go back to him as a starter this year and I hope that he chooses a clear number one QB (either Santa or Childers) going forward. The backup needs some playing time so they are ready if needed. However at this time Graham would be my number 3.

Well said and agree.

I would add that let's not forget that Santa is a RS SO and Childers is a RS FR. As pointed out several times by others, Chandler Harnish was markedly better his JR and SR years vs. his FR and SO years.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ayer-stats

(10-09-2017 06:20 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  If anything I think the QB play up to this point has proven Carey and the coaching staff out. It was not as clear cut as all the QB coaching gurus on here thought it was. At times it seemed that one of them had taken hold of the job only to give it back. IIRC, one poster said he heard (during summer camp) a coach yell at Santa after an interception and say something along the lines of don't just wing it. Seems like good advice that still needs to be reiterated.

Maybe we need a 3 headed monster. Graham in/near the redzone for his short passing game, Santa and Childers to share the rest of the field with Santa as the bomber and Childers the runner. LOL

Truth

Graham can run some, may be a more accurate passer and better decision maker but doesn't have good deep ball skills.

Santa doesn't seem to run as much and can make some great throws. He also a bit of that Jay Cutler gunslinger in him that can lead to turnovers.

Childers is a good runner but doesn't seem to have good deep ball skills either.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and no one has asserted themselves as the obvious choice. That's not on Carey not being able to make a good decision, it's the reality of the QB talent we have.

(10-09-2017 08:15 PM)HuskieJoe Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:20 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  If anything I think the QB play up to this point has proven Carey and the coaching staff out. It was not as clear cut as all the QB coaching gurus on here thought it was. At times it seemed that one of them had taken hold of the job only to give it back. IIRC, one poster said he heard (during summer camp) a coach yell at Santa after an interception and say something along the lines of don't just wing it. Seems like good advice that still needs to be reiterated.

Maybe we need a 3 headed monster. Graham in/near the redzone for his short passing game, Santa and Childers to share the rest of the field with Santa as the bomber and Childers the runner. LOL

Truth

Graham can run some, may be a more accurate passer and better decision maker but doesn't have good deep ball skills.

Santa doesn't seem to run as much and can make some great throws. He also a bit of that Jay Cutler gunslinger in him that can lead to turnovers.

Childers is a good runner but doesn't seem to have good deep ball skills either.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and no one has asserted themselves as the obvious choice. That's not on Carey not being able to make a good decision, it's the reality of the QB talent we have.

I think u got it about right.

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(10-09-2017 06:32 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:07 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  When Graham is healthy again he is going to play. Accept it and move on. None of our QBs are good.

That's a bit harsh and premature.

Santa and Childers have not yet played enough football to conclude they are "no good". Both have shown talent and ability and both would benefit and likely improve from additional live game action.

Graham is a quality person and has leadership ability but he has not progressed as a QB with playing time so I think that his upside is likely very limited. I hope that Carey does not go back to him as a starter this year and I hope that he chooses a clear number one QB (either Santa or Childers) going forward. The backup needs some playing time so they are ready if needed. However at this time Graham would be my number 3.

Sorry, two QBs that are average now and developing and one average QB.

While watching Santa during the Kent State game, I remembered a similar game at CMU a couple of years ago. Hare had a terrible game due to the conditions where he couldn't hang onto the ball. He got yanked and Graham came in and immediately threw an interception. I'm guessing Carey recalls that same game and realized Santa was headed in the same direction. Hence, he brings in Childers who is more of a running QB. It was a good decision that won the game. Going forward, I think Carey is going to play the QB that gives him the best chance to win each week based upon the defense and weather conditions. Ultimately, I don't care who the starter is; I just want wins.

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(10-09-2017 06:32 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:07 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  When Graham is healthy again he is going to play. Accept it and move on. None of our QBs are good.

That's a bit harsh and premature.

Santa and Childers have not yet played enough football to conclude they are "no good". Both have shown talent and ability and both would benefit and likely improve from additional live game action.

Graham is a quality person and has leadership ability but he has not progressed as a QB with playing time so I think that his upside is likely very limited. I hope that Carey does not go back to him as a starter this year and I hope that he chooses a clear number one QB (either Santa or Childers) going forward. The backup needs some playing time so they are ready if needed. However at this time Graham would be my number 3.

Again, Santa is one play away from being one of the top rated passers in the country. He went into the KSU game completing 62 of 95 passes for the season; a very high % for a QB that "only throws the deep ball". He completes that one f...in pass, he goes into KSU 63-93 (67.7%); 7 TDs and 2 Int. That one pass has changed everyone's mind mostly Carey. He literally could have went from emerging star to 3rd string on 1 play; a different result on that 1 play and this site would have been comparing this team to our Orange Bowl team.

The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

(10-09-2017 08:15 PM)HuskieJoe Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:20 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  If anything I think the QB play up to this point has proven Carey and the coaching staff out. It was not as clear cut as all the QB coaching gurus on here thought it was. At times it seemed that one of them had taken hold of the job only to give it back. IIRC, one poster said he heard (during summer camp) a coach yell at Santa after an interception and say something along the lines of don't just wing it. Seems like good advice that still needs to be reiterated.

Maybe we need a 3 headed monster. Graham in/near the redzone for his short passing game, Santa and Childers to share the rest of the field with Santa as the bomber and Childers the runner. LOL

Truth

Graham can run some, may be a more accurate passer and better decision maker but doesn't have good deep ball skills.

Santa doesn't seem to run as much and can make some great throws. He also a bit of that Jay Cutler gunslinger in him that can lead to turnovers.

Childers is a good runner but doesn't seem to have good deep ball skills either.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and no one has asserted themselves as the obvious choice. That's not on Carey not being able to make a good decision, it's the reality of the QB talent we have.

+100 to both of these posts.

I’m interested to see what Carey has to say in his presser today. I think Santa likely starts against Buffalo but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s Graham

I bet this week's depth chart says Graham OR Santa OR Childers. Just like the BC game we'll probably learn the starter when he takes the field on Saturday.

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

Was Harnish? He was benched for Grady. Grady didn't perform so they went back to Harnish.

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

We are judging them in game play. The coaches are judging them on game play and practice. Maybe Harnish was making good reads in practice, so he got a longer leash when game time errors were made. If Santa is making these same mistakes in practice, he may have a really short leash when he does it in a game. Same with Graham. He's probably making the right calls, less ints in practice.

(10-10-2017 11:13 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

We are judging them in game play. The coaches are judging them on game play and practice. Maybe Harnish was making good reads in practice, so he got a longer leash when game time errors were made. If Santa is making these same mistakes in practice, he may have a really short leash when he does it in a game. Same with Graham. He's probably making the right calls, less ints in practice.

Good point. +1

(10-10-2017 11:12 AM)Doggone Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

Was Harnish? He was benched for Grady. Grady didn't perform so they went back to Harnish.

Right, and there was never a realistic alternative to Harnish.

Let’s be honest, Harnish was the exception to the norm. It’s very rare to see a QB make the big of a jump in the middle of a career. That’s not to say guys don’t improve, because they do, but usually not from fringe starter to MAC MVP.

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

I think Santa has a lot of good qualities and he needs more playing time to work on making better decisions. A run Huff first and play action pass offense should do pretty well against most MAC defenses. Plus he has a nice downfield ball that we can utilize to make the defense honest or to use to catch up if necessary.

(10-10-2017 11:20 AM)7 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:07 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 10:33 AM)7 Wrote:  The one play away narrative needs to stop. He’s thrown 3 picks in his last 5 pass attempts. He didn’t get benched because of one play. He got benched because he makes bad decisions, just as he did in practice.

It may not fit your narrative but the 3rd pick never happens if the pass is completed. Your good points get clouded by you ignoring information that doesn't support your opinions. Your point on Santa is all that he did prior to the last 2 min of the SDSU game gets negated. You look for only the data to support your initial stance; the same one where you said Childers gives you "the least good and the most bad".

I think Carey is on the same track as you; he starts Graham when he is healthy, which he won't be this week, and he starts Childers against Buffalo. My hope is that he doesn't yank Childers if he starts to screw up. Pick a lane, believe in your choice and have the kids back. Thank God Harnish was allowed to develop and grow through mistakes. That would have been a complete waste of talent.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Santa has played 13 quarters and thrown 5 picks. That’s not good enough. I still stand by the fact Santa gives you the most good and the most bad, but if Childers can be an effective runner that does change the narrative for me a bit.

For the record, I would probably go back to Santa but it’s not an easy or clear choice.

Yea it's pretty close between those 2. Looking at the Kent game, all I know is that Childers can hit short passes when the guy is wide open. And we don't really know that he'll do any better when it comes to interceptions yet (especially throwing over the middle), though he'll have less pressure there since he's a more capable runner if the play breaks down.