(08-15-2017 09:15 AM)7 Wrote:  Did Carey not develop Hare or did I miss something here?

Did Carey not take over as offensive coordinator after a game where Lynch had -1 yards passing in the second half of his first career start and help him develop or am I missing something here?

Did hare really improve? I ask that honestly. Don't have the numbers in front of me. If he did I'm pretty sure Golladay had something to do with that

(08-15-2017 09:29 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:15 AM)7 Wrote:  Did Carey not develop Hare or did I miss something here?

Did Carey not take over as offensive coordinator after a game where Lynch had -1 yards passing in the second half of his first career start and help him develop or am I missing something here?

Fans are spoiled.we had 5-6 great years of QBs. Many schools go through this. All MAC Quarterbacks don't grow on trees

That might be true but if you want to get a lot out of QB , Northern Illinois is the last place I'd tell a great high school senior to go right now. Very last place, at least for QBs

(08-15-2017 09:30 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:29 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:15 AM)7 Wrote:  Did Carey not develop Hare or did I miss something here?

Did Carey not take over as offensive coordinator after a game where Lynch had -1 yards passing in the second half of his first career start and help him develop or am I missing something here?

Fans are spoiled.we had 5-6 great years of QBs. Many schools go through this. All MAC Quarterbacks don't grow on trees

That might be true but if you want to get a lot out of QB , Northern Illinois is the last place I'd tell a great high school senior to go right now. Very last place, at least for QBs

Very last place?

(08-15-2017 08:20 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Unless a miracle happens this year, the #1 goal for next year should be to sign a quality QB. We have had 2 excellent QBs in recent years. Is that as far as we go? Other teams seem to be able to load up on quality QBs. One leaves, and it's the next man up without missing a beat. Time and time again, we've seen that you do not win the MACC without a stud QB. Having the best O-line and running back(s) in the MAC won't do it. You need a threat at QB. Is getting to and winning the MACC a thing of the past for us? Certainly it seems like it this year.

Toledo, with all their top recruit classes, haven't found a stud QB in a decade. 2 time MACC Matt Johnson of BG was a middle 2 star recruit with only 1 offer. Last year's MACC QB Zach Terrell was a 2star recruit with only two other offers from FCS ISU and Kent. You know Hare and Lynch's backgrounds. 2 star kids no one wanted.

Stud QBs don't walk around with name tags that say "stud QB". It's a total crap shoot that's more about luck than anything. If it was all about developing them then QB coaches would be the highest paid coach on the staff and they would make stud QB after stud QB. There seems to be an unmeasurable intangible for QBs to succeed that's not about physical ability or coaching. Some guys have it. Most don't.

(08-15-2017 09:29 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:15 AM)7 Wrote:  Did Carey not develop Hare or did I miss something here?

Did Carey not take over as offensive coordinator after a game where Lynch had -1 yards passing in the second half of his first career start and help him develop or am I missing something here?

Did hare really improve? I ask that honestly. Don't have the numbers in front of me. If he did I'm pretty sure Golladay had something to do with that

I'd call my doctor for a med check if I was you, MaddDawgz02. And I don't mean that personally, been there before myself actually.

(08-14-2017 08:04 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Before everyone jumps off the nearest bridge because it sounds as if Graham is leading the competition at this point, let me re-iterate one thing about Graham. He's been forced into action during some really tough stretches of the schedule. He's faced USF, SDST, Boise, Toledo(20), WMU, Ohio and Toledo again. He's had 2 cupcakes in Buff(148 rating) and WIU(pooped the bed here) And though I thought Maddie played great last year, he faced 1 winning team, WMU, and had a 107 passer rating. His other games were Ball st., Buff., BG and CMU who were all under .500. Even Santa had a shot at a cream puff in Kent st.

So it will be Grahams luck again, because he's Graham and just a glutton for punishment, that he will probably face BC, EIU, Nebraska and if he lives SDST. NIU will be 1-3 and he will take all the blame. Then santa or Childers will come in for the soft MAC schedule and people will be say "see, they should have started day 1"

Maybe they should. I really don't know. But I'm curious as to how people would view Graham if his first 5 this starts this year are against Kent, Buff, BG, tol and ball st. While Santa or Childers end up looking pretty feable vs. those 3 tough OOC opponents.

I wouldn't go by opponents' overall records, I would go by how good their defense was, which is what Graham was playing against. For example, Toledo was good last year but not because of their defense. Still, you have a point, but the WIU game kinda showed what he would do against a weaker defense.

(08-15-2017 09:29 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:15 AM)7 Wrote:  Did Carey not develop Hare or did I miss something here?

Did Carey not take over as offensive coordinator after a game where Lynch had -1 yards passing in the second half of his first career start and help him develop or am I missing something here?

Did hare really improve? I ask that honestly. Don't have the numbers in front of me. If he did I'm pretty sure Golladay had something to do with that

What are you talking about? He couldn't hit a deep ball to save his life as a sophomore. He made obvious improvements as a junior.

(08-15-2017 10:20 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 08:04 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Before everyone jumps off the nearest bridge because it sounds as if Graham is leading the competition at this point, let me re-iterate one thing about Graham. He's been forced into action during some really tough stretches of the schedule. He's faced USF, SDST, Boise, Toledo(20), WMU, Ohio and Toledo again. He's had 2 cupcakes in Buff(148 rating) and WIU(pooped the bed here) And though I thought Maddie played great last year, he faced 1 winning team, WMU, and had a 107 passer rating. His other games were Ball st., Buff., BG and CMU who were all under .500. Even Santa had a shot at a cream puff in Kent st.

So it will be Grahams luck again, because he's Graham and just a glutton for punishment, that he will probably face BC, EIU, Nebraska and if he lives SDST. NIU will be 1-3 and he will take all the blame. Then santa or Childers will come in for the soft MAC schedule and people will be say "see, they should have started day 1"

Maybe they should. I really don't know. But I'm curious as to how people would view Graham if his first 5 this starts this year are against Kent, Buff, BG, tol and ball st. While Santa or Childers end up looking pretty feable vs. those 3 tough OOC opponents.

I wouldn't go by opponents' overall records, I would go by how good their defense was, which is what Graham was playing against. For example, Toledo was good last year but not because of their defense. Still, you have a point, but the WIU game kinda showed what he would do against a weaker defense.

Yeah, I think Graham's opponents have been really tough, but the WIU game last year really makes that argument lose some validity.

I am hoping to make this my last post. I am not saying Carey is the next Bill Walsh, however, I simply do not believe he, his staff or the program are deserving of the constant bashing. Let's look at the post Harnish/Lynch years as it pertains to the QB position.

Matt Macintosh ESPN Rank NR; was in the mix but was beat out by both Hare and Maddie, ended up transferring

Anthony Maddie ESPN Rank 74; Natl position Rank 114; transferred from WMU; lost starting job to Drew Hare; very talented, dealt with injuries, was playing at a high level his senior year prior to getting hurt; was denied medical redshirt this year

Drew Hare ESPN Rank 68; Natl Position Rank 180; won the starting job, leading NIU to MAC championship; very solid performer; was on track to be one of the all time best when a major injury derailed what was a promising career

Matt Williams ESPN Rank NR; switched to WR, capable return man; decided to transfer to pursue a two-sport opportunity

Landon Root ESPN Rank 71; Natl Rank 88; highly touted recruit; never played; likely determined Hare and Maddie would limit playing time; ended up transferring

Ryan Graham ESPN Rank NR; was pressed into duty as a redshirt freshman due to aforementioned injuries; had an impressive 2015 season considering the circumstances; struggled last season; he too has had to deal with injuries

Alec Ingold ESPN Rank 72; Natl Position Rank 59; was all but signed sealed and delivered to come to NIU to play QB; decided at the last minute to attend UW and play FB; saw action last season

Daniel Santacaterina ESPN Rank 72 Natl Position Rank 58; had season ending surgery prior to fall camp his freshman year; in his first game, post injury against EMU threw poorly, ran well; made his first start against KSU, leading the team to victory.

Marcus Childers ESPN Rank NR; came on in the spring to be part of the starting QB competition; has not seen any game action to date; Carey says he may be the most talented

Rodney Hall ESPN Rank NR; enrolled early, participate in spring ball; limited reps to date; raw talent; impressive athlete, far from game ready, but who knows.

Anthony Thompson ESPN Rank 68; Natl Position Rank 61; limited reps; comes from a nationally know HS program, with a strong running (option) attack; like Hall, does not appear to be in the QB picture this year

It is simply not common for MAC schools to get Blue Chip prospects (BTW, neither Harnish nor Lynch were highly recruited Blue Chips); getting a 3star is usually as good as it gets. You can argue that the program went after the right players, and in some cases developed some players into solid performers; unfortunately, we have had many injuries, and had a key recruit leave to play for a perennial powerhouse program, which happened to be in his backyard. I just don't understand why the extreme negativity towards the coach and the program. Again, the good on this site is losing to the bad...and it will likely get worse once the season starts.

(08-15-2017 10:59 AM)7 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:20 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 08:04 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Before everyone jumps off the nearest bridge because it sounds as if Graham is leading the competition at this point, let me re-iterate one thing about Graham. He's been forced into action during some really tough stretches of the schedule. He's faced USF, SDST, Boise, Toledo(20), WMU, Ohio and Toledo again. He's had 2 cupcakes in Buff(148 rating) and WIU(pooped the bed here) And though I thought Maddie played great last year, he faced 1 winning team, WMU, and had a 107 passer rating. His other games were Ball st., Buff., BG and CMU who were all under .500. Even Santa had a shot at a cream puff in Kent st.

So it will be Grahams luck again, because he's Graham and just a glutton for punishment, that he will probably face BC, EIU, Nebraska and if he lives SDST. NIU will be 1-3 and he will take all the blame. Then santa or Childers will come in for the soft MAC schedule and people will be say "see, they should have started day 1"

Maybe they should. I really don't know. But I'm curious as to how people would view Graham if his first 5 this starts this year are against Kent, Buff, BG, tol and ball st. While Santa or Childers end up looking pretty feable vs. those 3 tough OOC opponents.

I wouldn't go by opponents' overall records, I would go by how good their defense was, which is what Graham was playing against. For example, Toledo was good last year but not because of their defense. Still, you have a point, but the WIU game kinda showed what he would do against a weaker defense.

Yeah, I think Graham's opponents have been really tough, but the WIU game last year really makes that argument lose some validity.

It does. That's on him and he blew his chance to get to the easy part of the schedule. But I'll add this to my list of Graham excuses, the knee injury at the end of 2015. How much work did he get in the spring and summer going into 2016? Then he gets hurt in 2016 as well. The hits to the head were no joke for this kid. He has a half season's worth of game time spread out over two years. He's never really gotten to develope some consistency as a starter. That could be because he's just not that good. But maybe, just maybe, if fully healthy and able to put 5 or 6 games in a row together, he can find a groove and take that next step. That might be our best hope this year.

I like Carey more than most, but this group of QBs isn't good enough (IMO) and if they miss a bowl this year (for the record, I don't see that happening) he's gotta go.

I guess if you go back to Kill's first year, Nicholson, Harnish, and Grady isn't all that dissimilar to where we are now. But I don't think anyone in this group with the execption of Hall who isn't going to play has anywhere near that upside.

But I could be wrong.

(08-15-2017 11:38 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:59 AM)7 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:20 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 08:04 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Before everyone jumps off the nearest bridge because it sounds as if Graham is leading the competition at this point, let me re-iterate one thing about Graham. He's been forced into action during some really tough stretches of the schedule. He's faced USF, SDST, Boise, Toledo(20), WMU, Ohio and Toledo again. He's had 2 cupcakes in Buff(148 rating) and WIU(pooped the bed here) And though I thought Maddie played great last year, he faced 1 winning team, WMU, and had a 107 passer rating. His other games were Ball st., Buff., BG and CMU who were all under .500. Even Santa had a shot at a cream puff in Kent st.

So it will be Grahams luck again, because he's Graham and just a glutton for punishment, that he will probably face BC, EIU, Nebraska and if he lives SDST. NIU will be 1-3 and he will take all the blame. Then santa or Childers will come in for the soft MAC schedule and people will be say "see, they should have started day 1"

Maybe they should. I really don't know. But I'm curious as to how people would view Graham if his first 5 this starts this year are against Kent, Buff, BG, tol and ball st. While Santa or Childers end up looking pretty feable vs. those 3 tough OOC opponents.

I wouldn't go by opponents' overall records, I would go by how good their defense was, which is what Graham was playing against. For example, Toledo was good last year but not because of their defense. Still, you have a point, but the WIU game kinda showed what he would do against a weaker defense.

Yeah, I think Graham's opponents have been really tough, but the WIU game last year really makes that argument lose some validity.

It does. That's on him and he blew his chance to get to the easy part of the schedule. But I'll add this to my list of Graham excuses, the knee injury at the end of 2015. How much work did he get in the spring and summer going into 2016? Then he gets hurt in 2016 as well. The hits to the head were no joke for this kid. He has a half season's worth of game time spread out over two years. He's never really gotten to develope some consistency as a starter. That could be because he's just not that good. But maybe, just maybe, if fully healthy and able to put 5 or 6 games in a row together, he can find a groove and take that next step. That might be our best hope this year.

Every report out of camp last year was that Graham had make significant steps which was why Maddie moved to WR.

Here's a huge concern with Graham. Let's say he's more 2015 Graham (who was pretty decent all things considered) than 2016 (who was awful), do you have the least bit of confidence he could stay healthy for a 12-14 game season? I don't.

I don't care about their ranking or stars, I care about who else is recruiting them. If this coaching staff continues to recruit QBs (and other position players) who have no offers or only a few offers from 1-AA schools then yes chances are they probably won't be the next Lynch or Harnish.

Bowling Green, Toledo, and Miami seem to consistently get good QBs. This coaching staff should have to turn down good QBs with other mid-major and low-major offers to come play here with such a QB friendly offense.

You mean like Rodney Hall?

Do people forget the starting QB missed the entire season last year with an injury? Harnish-Lynch-Hare were a damn good trio of QBs. Way better than Toledo, WMU, or Miami (lol). This staff had a string of weird/bad luck with QB injuries, Seth Collins flaking, and Alec Ingold being taken by Wisconsin.

This prevailing thought here that this staff can't coach offense or can't develop taken is laughable though. They're 11-5 in conference the last two years playing 5 different QBs. They have some sort of idea how to get the most out of talent.

(08-15-2017 11:43 AM)7 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 11:38 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:59 AM)7 Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:20 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 08:04 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Before everyone jumps off the nearest bridge because it sounds as if Graham is leading the competition at this point, let me re-iterate one thing about Graham. He's been forced into action during some really tough stretches of the schedule. He's faced USF, SDST, Boise, Toledo(20), WMU, Ohio and Toledo again. He's had 2 cupcakes in Buff(148 rating) and WIU(pooped the bed here) And though I thought Maddie played great last year, he faced 1 winning team, WMU, and had a 107 passer rating. His other games were Ball st., Buff., BG and CMU who were all under .500. Even Santa had a shot at a cream puff in Kent st.

So it will be Grahams luck again, because he's Graham and just a glutton for punishment, that he will probably face BC, EIU, Nebraska and if he lives SDST. NIU will be 1-3 and he will take all the blame. Then santa or Childers will come in for the soft MAC schedule and people will be say "see, they should have started day 1"

Maybe they should. I really don't know. But I'm curious as to how people would view Graham if his first 5 this starts this year are against Kent, Buff, BG, tol and ball st. While Santa or Childers end up looking pretty feable vs. those 3 tough OOC opponents.

I wouldn't go by opponents' overall records, I would go by how good their defense was, which is what Graham was playing against. For example, Toledo was good last year but not because of their defense. Still, you have a point, but the WIU game kinda showed what he would do against a weaker defense.

Yeah, I think Graham's opponents have been really tough, but the WIU game last year really makes that argument lose some validity.

It does. That's on him and he blew his chance to get to the easy part of the schedule. But I'll add this to my list of Graham excuses, the knee injury at the end of 2015. How much work did he get in the spring and summer going into 2016? Then he gets hurt in 2016 as well. The hits to the head were no joke for this kid. He has a half season's worth of game time spread out over two years. He's never really gotten to develope some consistency as a starter. That could be because he's just not that good. But maybe, just maybe, if fully healthy and able to put 5 or 6 games in a row together, he can find a groove and take that next step. That might be our best hope this year.

Every report out of camp last year was that Graham had make significant steps which was why Maddie moved to WR.

Here's a huge concern with Graham. Let's say he's more 2015 Graham (who was pretty decent all things considered) than 2016 (who was awful), do you have the least bit of confidence he could stay healthy for a 12-14 game season? I don't.

And even if not injured , Graham has not played nearly good enough at any time in his career to be mistaken for a QB that could lead a team to a championship game. He just cannot accurately throw

(08-15-2017 11:51 AM)7 Wrote:  You mean like Rodney Hall?

Do people forget the starting QB missed the entire season last year with an injury? Harnish-Lynch-Hare were a damn good trio of QBs. Way better than Toledo, WMU, or Miami (lol). This staff had a string of weird/bad luck with QB injuries, Seth Collins flaking, and Alec Ingold being taken by Wisconsin.

This prevailing thought here that this staff can't coach offense or can't develop taken is laughable though. They're 11-5 in conference the last two years playing 5 different QBs. They have some sort of idea how to get the most out of talent.

If NIU doesn't already have a reputation as a place to steer clear from for quarterbacks , it soon will. If I had a son who was a solid recruit , I wouldn't even let Carey in my living room

(08-15-2017 11:43 AM)7 Wrote:  Every report out of camp last year was that Graham had make significant steps which was why Maddie moved to WR.

Here's a huge concern with Graham. Let's say he's more 2015 Graham (who was pretty decent all things considered) than 2016 (who was awful), do you have the least bit of confidence he could stay healthy for a 12-14 game season? I don't.

Not for a second. Graham is not athletic enough to avoid big hits. He's very clumsy when he runs.

(08-15-2017 11:44 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  I don't care about their ranking or stars, I care about who else is recruiting them. If this coaching staff continues to recruit QBs (and other position players) who have no offers or only a few offers from 1-AA schools then yes chances are they probably won't be the next Lynch or Harnish.

Bowling Green, Toledo, and Miami seem to consistently get good QBs. This coaching staff should have to turn down good QBs with other mid-major and low-major offers to come play here with such a QB friendly offense.

+1. Exactly.

Relax Mad dog. Graham will be the starter and I hate to say it, but will get hurt in the 1st or 2nd game (hope it doesn't happen). Then, maybe then Carey will say what the hell, and Childers will start. Probably only chance to save his job is if Childers can be great.

(08-15-2017 11:51 AM)7 Wrote:  You mean like Rodney Hall?

Do people forget the starting QB missed the entire season last year with an injury? Harnish-Lynch-Hare were a damn good trio of QBs. Way better than Toledo, WMU, or Miami (lol). This staff had a string of weird/bad luck with QB injuries, Seth Collins flaking, and Alec Ingold being taken by Wisconsin.

This prevailing thought here that this staff can't coach offense or can't develop taken is laughable though. They're 11-5 in conference the last two years playing 5 different QBs. They have some sort of idea how to get the most out of talent.

So it took Carey and his staff 4 years to finally get a Rodney Hall at QB with other offers. After the Orange Bowl the recruiting should have been taken to the next level (i.e. No longer recruiting kids with no offers or a few 1-AA offers but instead consistently getting kids with mid-major and higher offers).

Yes, those three were a solid trio of QBs, but were not brought here while Carey was head coach.

They have not done a good job of developing talent (Kenny Golloday was already an elite talent and Huff is as well), most have agreed that our offensive line has not been as good as it used to be these last two years. The best QB last season after Hare was moved to WR (Maddie) and four years later and they still don't sound high on Graham.