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Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
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NBPirate Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 12:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  brand name and blue blood are 2 totally different things....

Also, I would mention that at least Louisville, Michigan St are clearly ahead of Georgetown. So either the 2nd group is a whole lot smaller than 10, or Georgetown isn't in that 2nd group.

Incorrect. If next year there's a game between Michigan State and Georgetown, or Louisville and Georgetown, nobody will think that these are matchups of a big brand vs a little brand. To the contrary, those roll off the tongue as matchups between equal-brand programs.

A game with Michigan St and Louisville would be viewed much more than a game with either of them vs Georgetown. I'm sorry, but Georgetown isn't viewed as equal to either one of those.

Maybe program wise, but not brand wise. Brand-wise, those are equal.
07-14-2017 12:55 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

And, for me, there are two classes: blue bloods, and not blue bloods. I agree that Georgetown is in the second group. The fact remains that they are, relatively speaking, a johnny-come-lately in college basketball. And maybe they should be considered a johnny-came-lately, since their candle burned brightly, but briefly. They were irrelevant before the formation of the Big East, and are in some danger of relapsing, now that that conference is a shadow of its former self.

There are a lot of schools who have had great success over a short period of time. If you want to create some new class (quasi blue bloods) there are going to be an awful lot of members in it.
07-14-2017 04:04 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

And, for me, there are two classes: blue bloods, and not blue bloods. I agree that Georgetown is in the second group. The fact remains that they are, relatively speaking, a johnny-come-lately in college basketball. And maybe they should be considered a johnny-came-lately, since their candle burned brightly, but briefly. They were irrelevant before the formation of the Big East, and are in some danger of relapsing, now that that conference is a shadow of its former self.

There are a lot of schools who have had great success over a short period of time. If you want to create some new class (quasi blue bloods) there are going to be an awful lot of members in it.

Does the current Big East resemble the monster 16 team version? No, but it looks more like the original version and is still a top 3-4 conference every year so I don't see it being a shadow of it's former self. I know many on this board seem to want to push that idea.
07-14-2017 04:18 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 12:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  brand name and blue blood are 2 totally different things....

Also, I would mention that at least Louisville, Michigan St are clearly ahead of Georgetown. So either the 2nd group is a whole lot smaller than 10, or Georgetown isn't in that 2nd group.

Incorrect. If next year there's a game between Michigan State and Georgetown, or Louisville and Georgetown, nobody will think that these are matchups of a big brand vs a little brand. To the contrary, those roll off the tongue as matchups between equal-brand programs.

A game with Michigan St and Louisville would be viewed much more than a game with either of them vs Georgetown. I'm sorry, but Georgetown isn't viewed as equal to either one of those.

I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong about this. 07-coffee3
07-14-2017 05:22 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 12:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  brand name and blue blood are 2 totally different things....

Also, I would mention that at least Louisville, Michigan St are clearly ahead of Georgetown. So either the 2nd group is a whole lot smaller than 10, or Georgetown isn't in that 2nd group.

Incorrect. If next year there's a game between Michigan State and Georgetown, or Louisville and Georgetown, nobody will think that these are matchups of a big brand vs a little brand. To the contrary, those roll off the tongue as matchups between equal-brand programs.

A game with Michigan St and Louisville would be viewed much more than a game with either of them vs Georgetown. I'm sorry, but Georgetown isn't viewed as equal to either one of those.

I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong about this. 07-coffee3

I'm not. Georgetown isn't viewed as the same as Michigan St or Louisville. Maybe they were close to getting there 10 years ago, but a decade of futility has really stunted that.

And anyways, being a big brand and being a blue blood are 2 completely different thing.
07-14-2017 06:01 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

I stopped right there. 07-coffee3
07-14-2017 07:52 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Over the last 20 years, here are some teams that have had more NCAA tournament success than Georgetown. I'm defining 'success' in this case as Elite 8 berths, Final Four berths, Finals berths, and Championships.

Wisconsin, Illinois, Florida, UConn, Duke, North Carolina, Michigan State, Louisville, Memphis, Texas, Gonzaga, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Marquette, Kentucky, Maryland, Syracuse, Utah, Butler, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Villanova, Ohio State, Michigan, UCLA

Sure there's more to it than just Elite 8 and better performance. I wouldn't put Georgetown in the top 10. Probably around 20th. They have a 'brand name', which was legitimately earned 30 years ago, when they spent a 4 year period as the best team in college basketball, but now, I'd call them 17-25th in stature. Whether that makes them 'elite' or not, that's for others to decide.

Teams can fall out of being elite. Just ask St John's about that. Georgetown isn't there at this point. Its a great school, with a good tradition, but I'm not sure its really that blue blood to anyone under the age of 35.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 10:05 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 09:52 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 07:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

I stopped right there. 07-coffee3

In all-time win%, truly a measure of blueness of blood, Kentucky ranks #1, followed by UNC, Kansas, Duke, UNLV and UCLA.

Indiana comes in at #21.

I rest my case.
07-15-2017 10:54 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 10:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 07:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

I stopped right there. 07-coffee3

In all-time win%, truly a measure of blueness of blood, Kentucky ranks #1, followed by UNC, Kansas, Duke, UNLV and UCLA.

Indiana comes in at #21.

I rest my case.

Indiana is another team where their recent history doesn't really match their perceived reputation.

Last 10 years. 3 Sweet Sixteens, 0 Elite 8s, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships, 0 Finals

Last 20 years. 4 Sweet Sixteens, 1 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Finals, 0 Championships.

Just for comparison purposes...look at Butler's record in the last 20 years.

2 Finals, 2 Final Fours, 2 Elite Eights, 5 Sweet Sixteens.

Is Butler more of a 'Blue Blood' than Indiana? Probably not. But still, they have a clearly better NCAA Tournament record than Indiana over the last 20 years.
07-15-2017 11:04 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 11:04 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 07:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

I stopped right there. 07-coffee3

In all-time win%, truly a measure of blueness of blood, Kentucky ranks #1, followed by UNC, Kansas, Duke, UNLV and UCLA.

Indiana comes in at #21.

I rest my case.

Indiana is another team where their recent history doesn't really match their perceived reputation.

Last 10 years. 3 Sweet Sixteens, 0 Elite 8s, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships, 0 Finals

Last 20 years. 4 Sweet Sixteens, 1 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Finals, 0 Championships.

Just for comparison purposes...look at Butler's record in the last 20 years.

2 Finals, 2 Final Fours, 2 Elite Eights, 5 Sweet Sixteens.

Is Butler more of a 'Blue Blood' than Indiana? Probably not. But still, they have a clearly better NCAA Tournament record than Indiana over the last 20 years.

I would suggest the perception of Indiana basketball has more to do with Bobby Knight than anything else before or since. The same can be said of Georgetown and John Thompson, Jr.
07-15-2017 11:34 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Surprising... Georgetown is being criticized by a fan of the George Washington Colonials, and an ACC homer from Raleigh.

The Big East went 9-4 vs the ACC this year. 9th place St John's won at Syracuse by 33. 6th place Xavier beat FSU by 25. One of the 4 ACC wins was by the Cheatin Tarheels.
07-15-2017 12:19 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #132
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 12:19 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Surprising... Georgetown is being criticized by a fan of the George Washington Colonials, and an ACC homer from Raleigh.

The Big East went 9-4 vs the ACC this year. 9th place St John's won at Syracuse by 33. 6th place Xavier beat FSU by 25. One of the 4 ACC wins was by the Cheatin Tarheels.

And Georgetown owns home losses to Arkansas State, Radford, UNC-Asheville, and Monmouth over the last two seasons. Blue Bloods don't do that, even in down seasons. They've beaten the following schools in the NCAA over the last 10 years...Eastern Washington, Belmont, and UMBC. Sounds more like the profile of Western Kentucky than Georgetown.

Yes, I am a proud supporter of the team that Georgetown is too scared to play (we have winning records against Maryland, American, George Mason, Navy, and every other local school in recent years). Not that it really matters that much to us anymore. We can accomplish whatever we want to without them. They've refused to play us for 30 years now. They can refuse to play us for 30 more. Doesn't really impact us that much to be honest. We were awful when they would play us and we're a consistently credible program today. BTW, its not Georgetown that sucks up most of the attention in DC these days....its Maryland.

My comments on Georgetown stand. I maintain that they are around 20th in prestige. That's not a bad number.

Where would you put them? In front of Villanova? Florida? Wisconsin? Arizona? Oregon? UNC? Duke? Kansas? Oklahoma? Ohio State? Michigan State? Louisville? Kentucky? UConn? Syracuse? Texas? Butler? Maryland? Gonzaga? Indiana? Xavier?

Actually, in light of Georgetown's performance over the last 10 years, I'm pretty sure that calling them 20th is actually generous. They earned that generosity because they were the best team in college basketball for a 4 year period in the early-mid 1980s and were a strong program for a few years after that. If Ewing can't right the ship, they'll fall down to the Providence, St Johns and Seton Hall level. Not a bad place to be, but definitely not blue blood. If Ewing fails, people will just consign the Hoyas to the 'school that can't move on from its one time in the spotlight days'.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 01:05 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 12:34 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 12:19 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Surprising... Georgetown is being criticized by a fan of the George Washington Colonials, and an ACC homer from Raleigh.

The Big East went 9-4 vs the ACC this year. 9th place St John's won at Syracuse by 33. 6th place Xavier beat FSU by 25. One of the 4 ACC wins was by the Cheatin Tarheels.

I assume you are referring to me. In what way have I criticized Georgetown?
07-15-2017 12:35 PM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

And, for me, there are two classes: blue bloods, and not blue bloods. I agree that Georgetown is in the second group. The fact remains that they are, relatively speaking, a johnny-come-lately in college basketball. And maybe they should be considered a johnny-came-lately, since their candle burned brightly, but briefly. They were irrelevant before the formation of the Big East, and are in some danger of relapsing, now that that conference is a shadow of its former self.

There are a lot of schools who have had great success over a short period of time. If you want to create some new class (quasi blue bloods) there are going to be an awful lot of members in it.

Lol, awesome... yeah, you've been totally respectful of Georgetown... johnny come lately... johnny came lately... candle burned briefly... irrelevant before BE... conference shadow of former self...

Shadow conference BE went 9-4 vs the ACC... Xavier 25 point dismantling of FSU... Johnnies 33 points over Syracuse at Carrier Dome... your cheatin Tarheels lost to dreg BE Villanova...
07-15-2017 03:02 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #135
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 03:02 PM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

And, for me, there are two classes: blue bloods, and not blue bloods. I agree that Georgetown is in the second group. The fact remains that they are, relatively speaking, a johnny-come-lately in college basketball. And maybe they should be considered a johnny-came-lately, since their candle burned brightly, but briefly. They were irrelevant before the formation of the Big East, and are in some danger of relapsing, now that that conference is a shadow of its former self.

There are a lot of schools who have had great success over a short period of time. If you want to create some new class (quasi blue bloods) there are going to be an awful lot of members in it.

Lol, awesome... yeah, you've been totally respectful of Georgetown... johnny come lately... johnny came lately... candle burned briefly... irrelevant before BE... conference shadow of former self...

Shadow conference BE went 9-4 vs the ACC... Xavier 25 point dismantling of FSU... Johnnies 33 points over Syracuse at Carrier Dome... your cheatin Tarheels lost to dreg BE Villanova...

I have been completely respectful of Georgetown. What I haven't been is fawning. I haven't said anything that isn't reasonable, unless your skin is even thinner than President Trump's. You are free to hold a different view if you feel it important to defend your favorite school.
07-15-2017 03:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #136
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 03:02 PM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:21 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  There's no official tiers assigned to basketball program prestige. However, using it's past NCAA Championship, three NCAA Championship runner-ups, Final Fours, Elite Eights, NCAA Tournament appearances, conference tournament championships and conference regular season championships, it is clear that Georgetown is one of the top-20 basketball programs in the nation. Obviously, arguments and statistics can be made as to where it should be placed in that tier, but it cannot be denied that Georgetown's basketball brand is one of the top brands in the country. Utilizing the stretch in the 80's, as well as its association with Jordan Brand, it is clear and identifiable as an elite brand. Brand and program prestige can be viewed a bit differently, but that's where Georgetown is, IMO.

Some people - not you, btw - keep trying to answer questions like this with reams of statistics. But it can't be answered that way. E.g., in football, Notre Dame is still the biggest brand name even though they haven't won a single thing of consequence in almost a quarter-century.

On this issue, everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind knows that Georgetown is a pretty big basketball "brand name". Whether the won-loss or Final 4 or whatever statistical metric floats your boat says we deserve to be or not, the fact remains that we are.

No, we're not in the same category as the Big Six - Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Indiana. Those are the the true blue-bloods. But we are in the next group of 10 or so programs after that, the semi- or quasi- blue bloods, or whatever you want to call them.

It's just the way it is, no matter how many haters gonna hate. 07-coffee3

First, for the record, I wouldn't put Indiana in the blue blood class.

And, for me, there are two classes: blue bloods, and not blue bloods. I agree that Georgetown is in the second group. The fact remains that they are, relatively speaking, a johnny-come-lately in college basketball. And maybe they should be considered a johnny-came-lately, since their candle burned brightly, but briefly. They were irrelevant before the formation of the Big East, and are in some danger of relapsing, now that that conference is a shadow of its former self.

There are a lot of schools who have had great success over a short period of time. If you want to create some new class (quasi blue bloods) there are going to be an awful lot of members in it.

Lol, awesome... yeah, you've been totally respectful of Georgetown... johnny come lately... johnny came lately... candle burned briefly... irrelevant before BE... conference shadow of former self...

Shadow conference BE went 9-4 vs the ACC... Xavier 25 point dismantling of FSU... Johnnies 33 points over Syracuse at Carrier Dome... your cheatin Tarheels lost to dreg BE Villanova...

And Georgetown got smoked at home to the 3-5th place team in the Sun Belt. The Big East is really a good conference. But you guys are not helping them out.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 04:16 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 04:14 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #137
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
There's no question that Georgetown had under-performed under Thompson. I mean, after getting to the Final Four in 2007, they were upset five consecutive years - #10 Davidson in 2008, #14 Ohio in 2010, #11 VCU in 2011, #11 NC State in 2012 and then the infamous #15 FGCU in 2013 - by lower seeds. However, despite this stretch, one where they have missed the tournament three out of the past four years, they still have 30 NCAA Tournament appearances - which is good for top-20 all-time.

The biggest challenge will be in getting at least one deep run under Ewing to keep its stretch of long tournament runs going. That, to me, is the biggest difference between staying in that top grouping (top-20 programs) and becoming a program like St. Johns - a program that has the rich and strong history, but hasn't had a long tournament run in nearly 20 years.

Having said all that, the landscape and nature of college sports can change over time. Can Georgetown cease to be considered what is at the top level of college basketball (top-20 programs)? Of course. However, when you look at their history, and their consistency in having a deep run every decade, their ability to remain at this level is strong (especially considering their location, resources, conference affiliation and program brand).

Finally, referring to the Big East as being a shell of its former self is an exaggeration. The "Conference of Champions" - the Pac-12 - has not won an NCAA Championship in basketball since 1997 (Arizona), and UCLA has not won since 1995. The Pac-12 is certainly not a shell of its former self. The Big East has recently won a national championship in basketball, and has got 90% of its membership into the tournament since reorganizing. Its definitely not the elite basketball conference like from 2005-2013, but it's still top-4.
07-15-2017 04:14 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #138
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.
07-15-2017 04:44 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #139
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.
07-15-2017 06:54 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #140
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 10:57 PM by quo vadis.)
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