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Max Power Offline
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Post: #61
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 01:24 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 10:42 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The tax cut Rauner instituted in 2015 was irresponsible and at fault for the debt explosion -- tripling from $5 billion to $15 billion -- we have seen since then. Republicans like to crow about debt, fiscal responsibility and balancing budgets but they never let that get in the way of a good tax cut.

Factually false, 100%. Rauner "instituted" no such tax cut. His office holds no such power. In this case, the original tax increase was set to partially, not completely, roll back, as prescribed in the original statute. The Democratic legislature declined to send a bill to either Pat Quinn's desk or Rauner's desk, to keep the temporary tax rates in place. Therefore, they expired.

The explosion in debt was due to a lack of control on spending during a time when the Democratically controlled legislature failed to send a budget to the governor's desk.

And, since nothing was done about spending, taxes have been increased and nothing has been done about the structural issue of pension liability.

If you want to get technical, sure, it failed to get an extension ie was allowed to sunset, but what was the point of sending the extension to Rauner's desk when he was sure to veto it? Give him a PR victory?

Illinois is 37th in spending...

[Image: DEFAa3pXcAAPh-e.jpg]

... and part of yesterday's package was a 5% across the board cut of state agencies and a 10% cut in the funding to Illinois colleges and universities. We do need pension reform.

We can't do anything else because Rauner has been holding the state's budget hostage to his pet causes which have nothing to do with the budget, like workers comp reform. Finally the legislature worked around him.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 01:48 PM by Max Power.)
07-07-2017 01:47 PM
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 01:47 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:24 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 10:42 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The tax cut Rauner instituted in 2015 was irresponsible and at fault for the debt explosion -- tripling from $5 billion to $15 billion -- we have seen since then. Republicans like to crow about debt, fiscal responsibility and balancing budgets but they never let that get in the way of a good tax cut.

Factually false, 100%. Rauner "instituted" no such tax cut. His office holds no such power. In this case, the original tax increase was set to partially, not completely, roll back, as prescribed in the original statute. The Democratic legislature declined to send a bill to either Pat Quinn's desk or Rauner's desk, to keep the temporary tax rates in place. Therefore, they expired.

The explosion in debt was due to a lack of control on spending during a time when the Democratically controlled legislature failed to send a budget to the governor's desk.

And, since nothing was done about spending, taxes have been increased and nothing has been done about the structural issue of pension liability.

If you want to get technical, sure, it failed to get an extension ie was allowed to sunset, but what was the point of sending the extension to Rauner's desk when he was sure to veto it? Give him a PR victory?

It isn't technical. In fact, the tax rates fell while Quinn was governor, before Rauner even took office.

Why didn't the Dems send the extension to Quinn? Easy answer, Max.

Max Power
Illinois is 37th in spending...

[img Wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEFAa3pXcAAPh-e.jpg[/img]

... and part of yesterday's package was a 5% across the board cut of state agencies and a 10% cut in the funding to Illinois colleges and universities. We do need pension reform.

We can't do anything else because Rauner has been holding the state's budget hostage to his pet causes which have nothing to do with the budget, like workers comp reform. Finally the legislature worked around him.

I don't see a source for your numbers to determine specifics and context. I can't find it on PBS's page. Regardless, Illinois can't cover its bills, especially when you consider pensions. $200 billion? That is 40 years of the recent tax increase. There is no way to tax out of this issue.

Rauner hasn't held anything hostage. He said what he wanted. The Dems never sent him a budget. They have to send him a budget first. He can either sign it or veto it. They have to act first, and they didn't, to get through one more election cycle, much to the detriment of the state.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 02:02 PM by GeorgeBorkFan.)
07-07-2017 02:01 PM
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huskie1stdown Offline
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Post: #63
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 01:33 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:13 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Yeah, name me ONE place in this state you can pay 6.25%?
What a joke!!
Max must me a Union Democrat with a Pension.
Property Taxes for Schools is an idea other States have dumped but not Illinois.
Madigan is the biggest crook in the state.

http://www.sale-tax.com/Illinois_all

Addieville, IL
Adeline, IL
Adrian, IL
Albers, IL
ETC

I have lived here all my life and I have never heard of these towns with a 6.25% sales tax.
They must have a gas station on the corner and nothing else.
07-07-2017 02:31 PM
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thxjoenovak Offline
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Post: #64
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 02:31 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:33 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:13 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Yeah, name me ONE place in this state you can pay 6.25%?
What a joke!!
Max must me a Union Democrat with a Pension.
Property Taxes for Schools is an idea other States have dumped but not Illinois.
Madigan is the biggest crook in the state.

http://www.sale-tax.com/Illinois_all

Addieville, IL =252
Adeline, IL =85
Adrian, IL= NA
Albers, IL =1190
ETC

I have lived here all my life and I have never heard of these towns with a 6.25% sales tax.
They must have a gas station on the corner and nothing else
.

03-lmfao

2010 Census above...

And I think huskie1stdown nailed the "Union dem with a pension.."

Keep spinning it MAX....Everything's Great in ILLINOIS! 02-13-banana
07-07-2017 02:50 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #65
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 02:01 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:47 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:24 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 10:42 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The tax cut Rauner instituted in 2015 was irresponsible and at fault for the debt explosion -- tripling from $5 billion to $15 billion -- we have seen since then. Republicans like to crow about debt, fiscal responsibility and balancing budgets but they never let that get in the way of a good tax cut.

Factually false, 100%. Rauner "instituted" no such tax cut. His office holds no such power. In this case, the original tax increase was set to partially, not completely, roll back, as prescribed in the original statute. The Democratic legislature declined to send a bill to either Pat Quinn's desk or Rauner's desk, to keep the temporary tax rates in place. Therefore, they expired.

The explosion in debt was due to a lack of control on spending during a time when the Democratically controlled legislature failed to send a budget to the governor's desk.

And, since nothing was done about spending, taxes have been increased and nothing has been done about the structural issue of pension liability.

If you want to get technical, sure, it failed to get an extension ie was allowed to sunset, but what was the point of sending the extension to Rauner's desk when he was sure to veto it? Give him a PR victory?

It isn't technical. In fact, the tax rates fell while Quinn was governor, before Rauner even took office.

Why didn't the Dems send the extension to Quinn? Easy answer, Max.

Max Power
Illinois is 37th in spending...

[img Wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEFAa3pXcAAPh-e.jpg[/img]

... and part of yesterday's package was a 5% across the board cut of state agencies and a 10% cut in the funding to Illinois colleges and universities. We do need pension reform.

We can't do anything else because Rauner has been holding the state's budget hostage to his pet causes which have nothing to do with the budget, like workers comp reform. Finally the legislature worked around him.

I don't see a source for your numbers to determine specifics and context. I can't find it on PBS's page. Regardless, Illinois can't cover its bills, especially when you consider pensions. $200 billion? That is 40 years of the recent tax increase. There is no way to tax out of this issue.

Rauner hasn't held anything hostage. He said what he wanted. The Dems never sent him a budget. They have to send him a budget first. He can either sign it or veto it. They have to act first, and they didn't, to get through one more election cycle, much to the detriment of the state.

Obviously, it was because raising taxes is never politically popular, no matter how necessary, and if Quinn signed that he would have been DOA.

The chart and figure are from the Kaiser Family Foundation:

http://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator...desc%22%7D

Illinois is 37th in spending per capita at $4947 per person.

Let's not pretend Rauner wouldn't have vetoed what he did just veto at any other time. He made his hostage demands clear. Madigan couldn't push it through until he had the votes to override. Sadly, it took this long.
07-07-2017 06:18 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #66
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 02:31 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:33 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:13 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Yeah, name me ONE place in this state you can pay 6.25%?
What a joke!!
Max must me a Union Democrat with a Pension.
Property Taxes for Schools is an idea other States have dumped but not Illinois.
Madigan is the biggest crook in the state.

http://www.sale-tax.com/Illinois_all

Addieville, IL
Adeline, IL
Adrian, IL
Albers, IL
ETC

I have lived here all my life and I have never heard of these towns with a 6.25% sales tax.
They must have a gas station on the corner and nothing else.

Some recognizable names in there like Kankakee and Bourbonnais. Obviously, they're going to be small.
07-07-2017 06:20 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #67
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 02:50 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:31 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:33 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:13 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Yeah, name me ONE place in this state you can pay 6.25%?
What a joke!!
Max must me a Union Democrat with a Pension.
Property Taxes for Schools is an idea other States have dumped but not Illinois.
Madigan is the biggest crook in the state.

http://www.sale-tax.com/Illinois_all

Addieville, IL =252
Adeline, IL =85
Adrian, IL= NA
Albers, IL =1190
ETC

I have lived here all my life and I have never heard of these towns with a 6.25% sales tax.
They must have a gas station on the corner and nothing else
.

03-lmfao

2010 Census above...

And I think huskie1stdown nailed the "Union dem with a pension.."

Keep spinning it MAX....Everything's Great in ILLINOIS! 02-13-banana

I don't have a union pension but I don't begrudge those who do. And if we promised them something we need to live up to it.

I'm not saying everything is great. My first sentence here was "Is Illinois a mess, yes, did we need to raise taxes, yes, does major pension reform need to happen, yes."
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 06:24 PM by Max Power.)
07-07-2017 06:23 PM
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prairiedawg Offline
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Post: #68
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 06:23 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:50 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:31 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:33 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:13 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Yeah, name me ONE place in this state you can pay 6.25%?
What a joke!!
Max must me a Union Democrat with a Pension.
Property Taxes for Schools is an idea other States have dumped but not Illinois.
Madigan is the biggest crook in the state.

http://www.sale-tax.com/Illinois_all

Addieville, IL =252
Adeline, IL =85
Adrian, IL= NA
Albers, IL =1190
ETC

I have lived here all my life and I have never heard of these towns with a 6.25% sales tax.
They must have a gas station on the corner and nothing else
.

03-lmfao

2010 Census above...

And I think huskie1stdown nailed the "Union dem with a pension.."

Keep spinning it MAX....Everything's Great in ILLINOIS! 02-13-banana

I don't have a union pension but I don't begrudge those who do. And if we promised them something we need to live up to it.

I'm not saying everything is great. My first sentence here was "Is Illinois a mess, yes, did we need to raise taxes, yes, does major pension reform need to happen, yes."

Democrats' and their unions' theft of our $$$ make me want to throw up. YA THINK THE STATE NEEDS PENSION REFORM DO YA?

[Image: Pension-Fail-Graphic-2-1024x544.png]
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 07:00 PM by prairiedawg.)
07-07-2017 06:54 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #69
NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-05-2017 12:38 PM)klake87 Wrote:  After the next election Madigan will raise taxes again. First got to get all of you to forget then hit you again. We don't have a balanced budget(required by law). No changes to pensions and benefits so deficit continues to climb


And we are stuck with clown Madigan for as long as he wants. He takes care of his district very well and the imbecile voters there keep voting him in. In the last election, some 9,000 voters got him elected. A mere 9,000 votes and he controls the whole damn state. We need a different way to get that bastard out of office.
07-07-2017 07:01 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 07:01 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  He takes care of his district very well and the imbecile voters there keep voting him in. In the last election, some 9,000 voters got him elected. A mere 9,000 votes...

Can't imagine why those "imbecile voters" keep voting in a guy who "takes care of his district very well." Considering the number of people who actually turn out to vote, 9,000 isn't a mere amount. Actually, it's greater than what we averaged for our last three home games in 2016.
07-07-2017 08:43 PM
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Cowboy95 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 08:43 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:01 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  He takes care of his district very well and the imbecile voters there keep voting him in. In the last election, some 9,000 voters got him elected. A mere 9,000 votes...

Can't imagine why those "imbecile voters" keep voting in a guy who "takes care of his district very well." Considering the number of people who actually turn out to vote, 9,000 isn't a mere amount. Actually, it's greater than what we averaged for our last three home games in 2016.

Now, there's an idea. When NIU has a home game on a Tuesday afternoon in November maybe we can hope it is an election night. Then they could convince the state to make it an open polling site for the whole state. Just imagine - a free hot dog for every voter, at least until they run out, so the first 12 voters.
07-07-2017 09:15 PM
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 06:18 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Obviously, it was because raising taxes is never politically popular, no matter how necessary, and if Quinn signed that he would have been DOA.

Let's not pretend Rauner wouldn't have vetoed what he did just veto at any other time. He made his hostage demands clear. Madigan couldn't push it through until he had the votes to override. Sadly, it took this long.

Rauner likely would have vetoed it. I agree. Then the legislature could have tried to override him. But, that is all speculation because the Dems were not for the tax increase. Then didn't do what they had to do, first.

Madigan could have muscled this budget through any time. He didn't because he liked the disarray.

He never sent a balanced budget to the desk of the governor. Since he didn't do that, as the titular leader of the governing party, these past 2.5 years fall strictly at his feet and his feet only.

The guy has been a cancer in this state for 40 years. He's the single biggest reason we are in the mess we are.
07-07-2017 09:17 PM
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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Post: #73
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 06:23 PM)Max Power Wrote:  I don't have a union pension but I don't begrudge those who do. And if we promised them something we need to live up to it.

I'm not saying everything is great. My first sentence here was "Is Illinois a mess, yes, did we need to raise taxes, yes, does major pension reform need to happen, yes."

I agree, on some level, with if they were promised something, they are owed it. That being said, since unions almost exclusively support Dems, and the Dems, who have run this state for how many years, have underfunded pensions for almost thirty years running now, aren't the unions partially at fault?

When do we see pension reform then? If not yesterday, and not today, when?
07-07-2017 09:21 PM
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huskie1stdown Offline
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Post: #74
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
No reform, just higher taxes until it kills the state.
07-07-2017 09:53 PM
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JoeNovak Offline
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Post: #75
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 09:53 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  No reform, just higher taxes until it kills the state.

That's the Madigan way.
07-07-2017 10:02 PM
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Skinut Offline
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RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
This should be moved to spayed and neutered.
07-07-2017 10:45 PM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 09:17 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Rauner likely would have vetoed it. I agree. Then the legislature could have tried to override him. But, that is all speculation because the Dems were not for the tax increase. Then didn't do what they had to do, first.

Madigan could have muscled this budget through any time. He didn't because he liked the disarray.

He never sent a balanced budget to the desk of the governor. Since he didn't do that, as the titular leader of the governing party, these past 2.5 years fall strictly at his feet and his feet only.

The guy has been a cancer in this state for 40 years. He's the single biggest reason we are in the mess we are.

If Madigan liked the disarray he would have continued it. Sadly though, he couldn't "muscle it through" without the disarray. The disarray -- more specifically, the threat by credit ratings agencies to cut our bond rating to junk status -- is the reason some Republican legislators finally got on board with bucking the governor ie the titular head of their party. Initially, all GOPers were together, and you even had one rogue Dem against Madigan.

Quote:I agree, on some level, with if they were promised something, they are owed it. That being said, since unions almost exclusively support Dems, and the Dems, who have run this state for how many years, have underfunded pensions for almost thirty years running now, aren't the unions partially at fault?

When do we see pension reform then? If not yesterday, and not today, when?

Okay, hold up. FACT: Illinois has had a Republican governor for 30 of the last 42 years. FACT: Democrats have only been in control of the state senate since 2003. And Madigan has been House speaker for 20 years, not 40. Yet everything is somehow the Democrats' fault??? George Ryan, Jim Edgar and Jim Thompson are suddenly Democrats!

I don't know when we'll see it. Unfortunately, given the current stalemate, it will probably not be until Rauner loses next year.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 08:03 AM by Max Power.)
07-08-2017 07:58 AM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #78
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-07-2017 09:53 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  No reform, just higher taxes until it kills the state.

That's just false.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/illinoi...get-bills/

Quote:The spending bill totals $36.1 billion and includes $2.5 billion in spending cuts and 5 percent in across-the-board cuts to state agencies. It also includes reductions to state programs, grants and other expenditures.
07-08-2017 08:02 AM
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Post: #79
RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
New personal income tax rates:

Illinois – 4.95%
Indiana – 3.23% (Imposes a tax on services)
07-08-2017 11:52 AM
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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RE: NIU and other state schools downgraded to junk bond status
(07-08-2017 07:58 AM)Max Power Wrote:  If Madigan liked the disarray he would have continued it. Sadly though, he couldn't "muscle it through" without the disarray. The disarray -- more specifically, the threat by credit ratings agencies to cut our bond rating to junk status -- is the reason some Republican legislators finally got on board with bucking the governor ie the titular head of their party. Initially, all GOPers were together, and you even had one rogue Dem against Madigan.

The bond agencies forced him to do something. That is what ended this. Under the disarray, spending continued, at ridiculous levels. We spent more last year than we are projected to spend this year.

Again, why did he not send a balanced budget to the governor and force him to veto it?

The only budget Madigan sent was unbalanced. It was a budget that violated the state constitution.

Max Power Wrote:Okay, hold up. FACT: Illinois has had a Republican governor for 30 of the last 42 years. FACT: Democrats have only been in control of the state senate since 2003. And Madigan has been House speaker for 20 years, not 40. Yet everything is somehow the Democrats' fault??? George Ryan, Jim Edgar and Jim Thompson are suddenly Democrats!

I don't know when we'll see it. Unfortunately, given the current stalemate, it will probably not be until Rauner loses next year.

George Ryan was a piece of sh&t. Edgar and Thompson were very Republican-lite, especially with their spending. They sold out the state too.

Madigan has been House Speaker since 1983, except for two years, which adds up to 33 years. He's been in the legislature since 1971. During that time, he's actively engaged attorneys to fight redistricting reform. He's grown rich as a tax appeals attorney, running through the system he votes upon. He's despicable.

And, the Dems had the Senate from 1975 - 1993, before losing it for ten years.

What does Rauner have to do with Madigan not proposing pension reform? Answer - Its an excuse because Madigan doesn't want reform.

The Dems own this state and have driven it over the cliff. Bruce Rauner didn't do crap in the past 2.5 years to cause that to happen.
07-08-2017 12:12 PM
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