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If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #161
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

The MVC, minus WSU and CU isn't really any more prestigious than the Horizon but for the name of the conference and past history. We can talk about the conference tourney all we want but how many of the 10K fans in attendance this year were from Wichita?

Butler leaving the Horizon is a lot like WSU leaving the Valley. Once it happens, the conference drops off the face of the earth, hoping for a run by more than one member (UNI). WSU, with all their reputation gained a 10 seed this year. Illinois State didn't get an auto bid with 29 wins. Oakland is not going to leave the Horizon for the Missouri Valley. It is just not going to happen. I'm not sure Valpo would consider an invite either. They also seem to be pretty happy with a good thing going and unless the conference is a solid upgrade (which the MVC really isn't) what would be in it for Valpo to travel that far west?

The MVC may very well be stuck with a choice between UMKC and Omaha. I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.
03-29-2017 09:03 AM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #162
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 06:59 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  The MVC and MVFC are two completely different entities. The MVC will propably spend zero time concerning itself with football.

The football schools in the MVC may disagree. That was always a big reason for Murray State not being given much consideration as the MVFC didn't want to go to 12 and MSU wouldn't have any place for their football if added to the MVC. Now that the MVFC will have 11, the football schools could push for them to join so the MVFC could have 12. If that's important to the football schools. Basketball may be king in the MVC, even though there's a lack of commitment from some, there are schools that care about their football as well.
03-29-2017 09:18 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #163
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.

Keep telling yourself that. There is a conference pecking order and the Valley is still above the Horizon and Summit League even without Wichita State.
03-29-2017 09:27 AM
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Post: #164
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
The MVC has a number of credits from the Shockers and UNi, while the Horizon League's Butler run have expired after this year. The MVC has at least 17 credits while the Horizon only has six in 2018. Each credit is worth at least $1.5 mill over its six year life to the conference. Obviously, the MVC pays out more than the Horizon and will until Wichita State's credits due to wins run out. Granted, WSU's Final Four run from 2013 runs out soon, and that may be why the Shockers will time their exit to correspond with the MVC's Dance credit fall.
03-29-2017 10:12 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #165
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 09:27 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.

Keep telling yourself that. There is a conference pecking order and the Valley is still above the Horizon and Summit League even without Wichita State.

Keep telling yourself that. The Valley, minus a big change in thinking is dying and the public schools, including yours know that. Reputation and history are important, and yes for many Summit schools the Valley would be a good move. I think it would be a good move for SDSU, but this discussion is about the Horizon and Oakland. The Valley provides nothing for Oakland but longer trips and fewer rivals with no real benefit other than the money Wichita and UNI have made with tourney wins. That money will run out minus someone in the Valley stepping up. Long term, the Valley provides nothing for a school like Oakland.
03-29-2017 10:37 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #166
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 10:37 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:27 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.

Keep telling yourself that. There is a conference pecking order and the Valley is still above the Horizon and Summit League even without Wichita State.

Keep telling yourself that. The Valley, minus a big change in thinking is dying and the public schools, including yours know that. Reputation and history are important, and yes for many Summit schools the Valley would be a good move. I think it would be a good move for SDSU, but this discussion is about the Horizon and Oakland. The Valley provides nothing for Oakland but longer trips and fewer rivals with no real benefit other than the money Wichita and UNI have made with tourney wins. That money will run out minus someone in the Valley stepping up. Long term, the Valley provides nothing for a school like Oakland.

Nobody in the Valley wants Oakland. It's a fairy tale dream land on this board.
03-29-2017 11:06 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #167
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 11:06 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 10:37 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:27 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.

Keep telling yourself that. There is a conference pecking order and the Valley is still above the Horizon and Summit League even without Wichita State.

Keep telling yourself that. The Valley, minus a big change in thinking is dying and the public schools, including yours know that. Reputation and history are important, and yes for many Summit schools the Valley would be a good move. I think it would be a good move for SDSU, but this discussion is about the Horizon and Oakland. The Valley provides nothing for Oakland but longer trips and fewer rivals with no real benefit other than the money Wichita and UNI have made with tourney wins. That money will run out minus someone in the Valley stepping up. Long term, the Valley provides nothing for a school like Oakland.

Nobody in the Valley wants Oakland. It's a fairy tale dream land on this board.

Seems like their name pops up everywhere. Not just on this board. I've seen it tossed around multiple times on MVCfans and even on the MSU board. Same with Valpo, there name is everywhere. Though I also don't think Valpo will be moving to the Valley for the same reasons Oakland won't.

The MVC may be best off staying at 9 and playing things out.
03-29-2017 11:31 AM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #168
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
The Bears fan is right, Oakland isn't even on the radar for the MVC. Valpo is on the list and they wanted in last time and probably still want in. I'm not sure that they get the nod when the time comes though.
03-29-2017 12:55 PM
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Post: #169
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

The MVC, minus WSU and CU isn't really any more prestigious than the Horizon but for the name of the conference and past history. We can talk about the conference tourney all we want but how many of the 10K fans in attendance this year were from Wichita?

Butler leaving the Horizon is a lot like WSU leaving the Valley. Once it happens, the conference drops off the face of the earth, hoping for a run by more than one member (UNI). WSU, with all their reputation gained a 10 seed this year. Illinois State didn't get an auto bid with 29 wins. Oakland is not going to leave the Horizon for the Missouri Valley. It is just not going to happen. I'm not sure Valpo would consider an invite either. They also seem to be pretty happy with a good thing going and unless the conference is a solid upgrade (which the MVC really isn't) what would be in it for Valpo to travel that far west?

The MVC may very well be stuck with a choice between UMKC and Omaha. I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.
This post is on such a different plane of reality I have no idea where you'd start.
03-29-2017 02:51 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #170
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
Just curious....would the MVC be interested in NMSU or UALR?
03-29-2017 03:13 PM
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Post: #171
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 03:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just curious....would the MVC be interested in NMSU or UALR?

Little Rock, maybe. NMSU would never get the votes to be added due to distance.
03-29-2017 03:28 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #172
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
Looking at it from the MVC value standpoint I don't see any school that improves their position. I am not sure if I am a Horizon member I even want to join a MVC without Wichita State. Ask these questions:

What schools make the MVC a multi bid conference? What schools get the MVC a TV deal? The answer is none.

So the question becomes do you move to 10 simply to ease scheduling or to you stay with 9 to split what money the conference gets 9 instead of 10 ways? Since every team sport goes odd, and they probably feel insecure losing a school (not that there us even a whiff of interest from any other conference in any of the other schools) they are probably going to add one to get back to 10. If the reason is simply numbers and security, then you look in footprint. Last time around UMKC and ORU were evaluated mostly to appease Wichita State, but there is no need this time. That means Valparaiso or Illinois-Chicago. You could make a case for Milwaukee or Wright State, but they are clearly second tier.

The real question is, will Valpo or UIC even be interested in the MVC without Wichita State? Or does the MVC have to reach down for a lower standing school where joining would actually be an upgrade, such as Stephen F Austin?
03-29-2017 03:33 PM
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Post: #173
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 03:28 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 03:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just curious....would the MVC be interested in NMSU or UALR?

Little Rock, maybe. NMSU would never get the votes to be added due to distance.

But would Little Rock give up easy trips to UT-Arlington, UL Monroe, and of course Arkansas State who is always their biggest ticket seller?
03-29-2017 04:02 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #174
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 02:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

The MVC, minus WSU and CU isn't really any more prestigious than the Horizon but for the name of the conference and past history. We can talk about the conference tourney all we want but how many of the 10K fans in attendance this year were from Wichita?

Butler leaving the Horizon is a lot like WSU leaving the Valley. Once it happens, the conference drops off the face of the earth, hoping for a run by more than one member (UNI). WSU, with all their reputation gained a 10 seed this year. Illinois State didn't get an auto bid with 29 wins. Oakland is not going to leave the Horizon for the Missouri Valley. It is just not going to happen. I'm not sure Valpo would consider an invite either. They also seem to be pretty happy with a good thing going and unless the conference is a solid upgrade (which the MVC really isn't) what would be in it for Valpo to travel that far west?

The MVC may very well be stuck with a choice between UMKC and Omaha. I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.
This post is on such a different plane of reality I have no idea where you'd start.

Really? Even South Dakota State's AD, in an interview today when asked about a move to the Valley (a conference he spent 10 years in) stated as much. The Valley, minus Wichita isn't that attractive. Deal with it.
03-29-2017 04:26 PM
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Post: #175
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
why would anybody need to be added?
03-29-2017 04:26 PM
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Post: #176
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
We've entered a new reality in college sports. It's awfully hard for conferences outside of the Power 6, A-10, and American to get at large bids. The lower tier conferences are better off keeping their leagues small (10 members is ideal) and their travel footprint tight.

A league like the Horizon is in excellent shape--small footprint, lots of bus travel, 10 members.

For a school like Valpo or UIC the MVC isn't a bad move because they have lots of members in Indiana and Illinois that are easy to get to. A school like North Dakota St would be a tougher sell because they'd go from ruling the roost to geographic outlier.

Schools like UTA, UALR, A&M Corpus Christi, and New Orleans who are hoops schools in football leagues are going to stay where they are for as log as they are permitted because of the travel. (Although personally I'd like to see these 4 join UMKC and UTRGV to be the central time zone wing of the WAC)
03-29-2017 04:55 PM
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Post: #177
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 04:55 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  We've entered a new reality in college sports. It's awfully hard for conferences outside of the Power 6, A-10, and American to get at large bids. The lower tier conferences are better off keeping their leagues small (10 members is ideal) and their travel footprint tight.

Agreed 100%.

I'd like to tighten up the Summit to be the Dakota 4 + Omaha + Denver ... and truth be told I'd like to add Duluth, as well. They could drop football and move the rest to DI. They have a great hockey arena that could play select men's bball games for higher attendance.

Probably throw N Colo in while you're at it. And UMKC to go with Omaha.
03-29-2017 08:05 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 04:26 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 02:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 09:03 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:54 PM)Policiious Wrote:  MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

The MVC, minus WSU and CU isn't really any more prestigious than the Horizon but for the name of the conference and past history. We can talk about the conference tourney all we want but how many of the 10K fans in attendance this year were from Wichita?

Butler leaving the Horizon is a lot like WSU leaving the Valley. Once it happens, the conference drops off the face of the earth, hoping for a run by more than one member (UNI). WSU, with all their reputation gained a 10 seed this year. Illinois State didn't get an auto bid with 29 wins. Oakland is not going to leave the Horizon for the Missouri Valley. It is just not going to happen. I'm not sure Valpo would consider an invite either. They also seem to be pretty happy with a good thing going and unless the conference is a solid upgrade (which the MVC really isn't) what would be in it for Valpo to travel that far west?

The MVC may very well be stuck with a choice between UMKC and Omaha. I'm just not sure that the conference has as many options as some think they have.
This post is on such a different plane of reality I have no idea where you'd start.

Really? Even South Dakota State's AD, in an interview today when asked about a move to the Valley (a conference he spent 10 years in) stated as much. The Valley, minus Wichita isn't that attractive. Deal with it.
None of my favorite teams play in the Valley. But we are one week removed from the Summit champion's head coach calling a players meeting to announce he is leaving for the MVC's indisputable worst program (changed his mind at literal last minute).

Whatever the SDSU AD's (far from a neutral party with Summit tourney in his backyard) quote was doesn't change that reality.
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2017 09:31 PM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
03-29-2017 09:10 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #179
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
(03-29-2017 08:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 04:55 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  We've entered a new reality in college sports. It's awfully hard for conferences outside of the Power 6, A-10, and American to get at large bids. The lower tier conferences are better off keeping their leagues small (10 members is ideal) and their travel footprint tight.

Agreed 100%.

I'd like to tighten up the Summit to be the Dakota 4 + Omaha + Denver ... and truth be told I'd like to add Duluth, as well. They could drop football and move the rest to DI. They have a great hockey arena that could play select men's bball games for higher attendance.

Probably throw N Colo in while you're at it. And UMKC to go with Omaha.

In an ideal world the Summit would find a home for programs like IUPUI, IPFW, and Oral Roberts and replace them with Minnesota Duluth, St Cloud St, and Northern Colorado. That gives them enough to have football in house and take over management of the hockey league since they'd have 5 of the 8 members.
03-29-2017 09:43 PM
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Post: #180
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?
Right, just that I think the schools with DI hockey would have to follow Omaha's path up to DI ... meaning football would need to be dropped. Just unrealistic that schools like St Cloud and Duluth, that already spend a lot on DII with on a few thousand average attendance, would be able to spend at FCS levels.
03-30-2017 08:01 AM
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