PJ knew.
Actions speak louder than words.
Minnesota has never been anyone's dream job. Not even for a native of Kaneland.
But it isnt about PJ.
Question: What impact did the both the success and posed threat of Corey Davis and Zach Terrell have on WMU's running game and defense?
Answer: It made the running game far more effective and reduced the exposure of the defense through time of possession.
How?
Terrell to Davis was a threat every single down to put up 6 in about 6-7 seconds from anywhere on the field. The potency was so apparent that the TE that everyone clamored for to be used as a passing threat was relegated to almost exclusively blocking. Not Terrell's call but the staff's.
Why?
If you choose to lean your zone toward Corey or put 1 1/2 or 2 on him WMU always had an extra hat to block (with an already good OL) for some pretty good running backs. Gouge yardage, control the clock and eventually score. Tired of watching WMU run successfully try to trick the 5th year 4 year starting QB and you paid for it. Even very average 5th year seniors like Carrington and Henry could play pitch and catch.
I suspect Zach, noodle arm to some, would tell you that Corey Davis, the 5th player taken in the entire NFL draft made Zach's statistics look far superior than if you subbed in Donnie Ernsberger for Corey. No?
Someone stated that teams put their best athletes on offense. If true then this recipe worked to perfection. Always have the threat to score in an instant, manage the clock as you physically impose your better athletes on their inferior ones. Keep their best athletes off the field.
Defensively, with fresh legs and opponents usually playing from behind it wasnt as difficult. In fact, as WMU scored it became more and more predictable how the opponent HAD to play in order to stay within striking distance.
Playing a far favorable schedule didnt hurt either. Northwestern had more than whispers that maybe Fitz wasnt fit enough to continue to lead NW. Illinois? Please. Ga. Southern. Not the same one that put 40+ on WMU in Statesboro. Didnt they just fire the replacement for the guy that did guide that stomping?
The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
(12-29-2017 12:52 AM)gobaseline Wrote: [ -> ]PJ knew.
Actions speak louder than words.
Minnesota has never been anyone's dream job. Not even for a native of Kaneland.
But it isnt about PJ.
Question: What impact did the both the success and posed threat of Corey Davis and Zach Terrell have on WMU's running game and defense?
Answer: It made the running game far more effective and reduced the exposure of the defense through time of possession.
How?
Terrell to Davis was a threat every single down to put up 6 in about 6-7 seconds from anywhere on the field. The potency was so apparent that the TE that everyone clamored for to be used as a passing threat was relegated to almost exclusively blocking. Not Terrell's call but the staff's.
Why?
If you choose to lean your zone toward Corey or put 1 1/2 or 2 on him WMU always had an extra hat to block (with an already good OL) for some pretty good running backs. Gouge yardage, control the clock and eventually score. Tired of watching WMU run successfully try to trick the 5th year 4 year starting QB and you paid for it. Even very average 5th year seniors like Carrington and Henry could play pitch and catch.
I suspect Zach, noodle arm to some, would tell you that Corey Davis, the 5th player taken in the entire NFL draft made Zach's statistics look far superior than if you subbed in Donnie Ernsberger for Corey. No?
Someone stated that teams put their best athletes on offense. If true then this recipe worked to perfection. Always have the threat to score in an instant, manage the clock as you physically impose your better athletes on their inferior ones. Keep their best athletes off the field.
Defensively, with fresh legs and opponents usually playing from behind it wasnt as difficult. In fact, as WMU scored it became more and more predictable how the opponent HAD to play in order to stay within striking distance.
Playing a far favorable schedule didnt hurt either. Northwestern had more than whispers that maybe Fitz wasnt fit enough to continue to lead NW. Illinois? Please. Ga. Southern. Not the same one that put 40+ on WMU in Statesboro. Didnt they just fire the replacement for the guy that did guide that stomping?
Gobaseline, I agree with everything you said, and think it is great insight into at least part of why we had such a good offense and team last year. But it neither explains the whole picture of why we were so successful last year, nor explain at all why we lost to teams we should have beaten this year, even with new QBs and receivers.
Last years team had been built for years in a system which incorporated certain philosophies on how to reach an elevated commitment by all those involved with the program, as well as fundamental strategies in terms of how games were to be won on the field. Say what you will about Fleck, but the guy had a plan, and in the end it worked. I dont know if it will work the same way at Minnesota, but it worked here, and I think it would have continued to work here if the new staff accepted it and continued the system.
Teams can win with new QBs. There are cases every year of even freshmen QBs becoming instant superstars, and many more of new, previously inexperienced QBs doing quite well, and leading their teams to great success. I'm not saying that having young QBs is a good thing. It is something coaches at every school need to deal with. But even with two new QBs this year we had no reason to lose to Akron and CMU, and should have played better in several other games. Our play calling was horrible for any QB. Predictability is the worst thing for any QB, let alone a new QB. We were the most predictable play calling team in history this year. Way too much run, run, then pass on third and long. That, I believe, was are biggest problem. Hope it changes next year. If not, then I bet we will have a similar record as we did this season; even with more experienced QBs and a far more favorable schedule.
(12-29-2017 01:09 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
who the hell is gobaseline?
(12-29-2017 01:09 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
Hey #skankasaurus, what happened to #hairgels magic. 9 win team returned 16, goes to 5 wins?? #Goblesdumb
(12-29-2017 10:17 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2017 01:09 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
Still hoping they’ll hire you? Maybe 715 #skanasaurus will put in a good word for you.
You were almost certainly going to take a step back with a new QB. Then, your QB got injured. It's unfortunate, and tough to overcome.
(12-29-2017 11:34 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2017 10:17 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2017 01:09 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
Still hoping they’ll hire you? Maybe 715 #skanasaurus will put in a good word for you.
Keep working that narrative if it makes you feel better Dip.
Just thought it was a great point that it feels like at times we are discrediting all the guys from that Cotton Bowl team that returned (there were a lot). Nobody has denied losing Terrell and Davis hurt signicantly, in fact we all expected it to impact this year’s performance. Just not to the level that it did, even with injuries piling up towards the end of the season.
Losing two of the greatest players in Bronco history hurt the team? What a hot take.
(12-29-2017 11:18 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote: [ -> ]who the hell is gobaseline?
Welcome back
(12-29-2017 11:18 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote: [ -> ]who the hell is gobaseline?
Just one of the best Broncos there is.
(12-29-2017 01:09 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]The first 2 man team in the history of FBS football to make the Cotton Bowl. Even when Zach to Corey didn’t light up Wisconsin every play in the Cotton Bowl. Wsconon only won by 8 probably because they didn’t try hard or practice hard. They were held to 24 solely because of Keion. Had nothing to do with Spillane, Darius, etc.
The players on this year’s team deserve better than that. Lester will get his chance to prove it was one bad year. But don’t say the magical season was all because of 2 players no matter how great they were. The rest of the guys were more than talented enough to win the MAC as evidenced by the coaches poll at the beginning of the year where it was thought to be a 2 horse race with toledo.
My point isn't about a coach. The coach is simply a part of the story line.
It is about the simple undeniable truth of the impact of particularly 1 player, Davis. The 5th player taken in the entire draft with most yardage of a college receiver in his playing division. His departure and that of a 4 year starting 5th year QB had that much impact. It was the reason there was a coaching change. The departing coach knew this fact and it's importance. If the running game and the defense were more impactful why didn't he stay taking a pay bump and use this next season as his springboard to a much larger stage?
Because it wasnt going to happen. The defense would be on the field much more often. The running game would be forced to play against an even number of defenders challenging the new QB (whomever) and the new untested WR's to beat you.
Wisconsin was the only team on the schedule that season that going into the game was better than WMU. And it was proven out.
WMU never threatened to win the game. Whiskey was in control. The score was 24-10 with about 3 1/2 minutes left in the entire game.
WMU's last score came about when Corey Davis intercepted a desperation pass from a scrambling Terrell. Yes intercepted. The pass was thrown more to the Wisconsin DB. But in typical Davis fashion he made the play.
Wisconsin's plan was let WMU run up and down between the 20's. Take away Corey and try to impose their wider body will on WMU when Whisky had the ball. And they did.
WMU's defense played fine. WMU's running game was reasonably effective. But WMU lost. Why? A more talented team took away that talent for much of that game.
Move to this past season and WMU is minus this dynamic. The defense likely would be on the field much more. The RB's must tote the ball more. But there isnt anyone to even intercept an errant desperation pass. No one!
You tack on key injuries (that didnt occur the previous year) and over time things unravel. It isn't complicated to understand.
I've read the debate over depth. Quantity? Or quality? I argue the quality of depth was the issue. Davis and Terrell dictated how WMU ran the ball. Putting points up framed how the defense could play downhill in almost every game.
Without that quality despite the quantity elsewhere WMU was not going to over come that loss. Hence the coaching change.
Again, do you think a 6th year 5 year starter Zach Terrell would have reversed the tide if you substituted Donnie Ernsberger for Corey? No.
That's why there was a coaching change.
Gobaseline, again I agree with you, BUT, when you say, "Wisconsin was the only team on the schedule that season that going into the game was better than WMU. And it was proven out", I would add that this year that while there were a few teams on our schedule who going into the game were better than us, Akron and CMU were not, and probably NIU wasn't either.
The angst by a few of us on this board is not based on not having the same season this year that we had the season before, but rather not playing at all to our potential, or even reasonably, in games where we had better and more experienced players on the field, and where in our judgement we should have won easily.
Teams can recover and even improve after replacing great players, even at key positions. Too much I think is made of losing Terrell and Davis. They were not SO dynamic that we shouldn't have been able to beat Akron or CMU without them.
The defense really held their own after coming out flat in the 1st quarter and giving up two quick TDs.
Only 10 points allowed after the 1st quarter, and 7 of those points came on a very short field following Terrell’s INT.
On offense, we were lucky we recovered our own fumbles, which I think there were four.
Certainly Wisconsin was the better team overall and deserved the win. However, compared to all the bowl blowouts we’ve seen this year, our Cotton Bowl was at least entertaining to the end. A 1-score margin outcome is still worth the price of admission. Recover that onsides kick and things could’ve gotten extra interesting.
Quote:WMU's last score came about when Corey Davis intercepted a desperation pass from a scrambling Terrell. Yes intercepted. The pass was thrown more to the Wisconsin DB. But in typical Davis fashion he made the play.
It didn’t help that Wisconsin’s DB was molesting Davis like crazy while the ball was in the air. Watching it unfold I couldn’t believe no flag was thrown.
(12-30-2017 06:49 AM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ]Gobaseline, again I agree with you, BUT, when you say, "Wisconsin was the only team on the schedule that season that going into the game was better than WMU. And it was proven out", I would add that this year that while there were a few teams on our schedule who going into the game were better than us, Akron and CMU were not, and probably NIU wasn't either.
The angst by a few of us on this board is not based on not having the same season this year that we had the season before, but rather not playing at all to our potential, or even reasonably, in games where we had better and more experienced players on the field, and where in our judgement we should have won easily.
Teams can recover and even improve after replacing great players, even at key positions. Too much I think is made of losing Terrell and Davis. They were not SO dynamic that we shouldn't have been able to beat Akron or CMU without them.
Amen. Wisconsin would destroy CMU or Akron by 40. I don’t believe Terrell and Davis were the only things keeping WMU from being that at that level. I can even accept the loss to NIU in the wind without Wassink. There is just no defense for CMU, Akron and another near loss to Idaho. Idaho is going FCS next year and the game vs them was with WMU at full strength.
People apparently forget how good our defense played in the Cotton Bowl after those first two Wisconsin scoring drives. That had nothing to do with our TOP on offense. It was actually the opposite because our offense struggled to get going pretty much the entire game. It was our defense who kept us in that game. And we returned nearly everyone from that defense.
I still remember the Idaho game being a huge red flag at the time and everyone else essentially poo pooing the criticism saying Idaho was a very good team and a win is a win. Their season record is 4-8. Our four MAC wins all came against teams with losing records (15-33 combined records). And then of course our other win was against FCS Wagner.
I am trying to be optimistic about next year still but the fact is that we were fortunate to even win 6 games. Not sure our schedule is any more favorable next season but apparently everyone thinks that is the case. We will see.
While the post is appreciated, it offers nothing that has not already been discussed repeatedly on this board.
And the comments about the Cotton Bowl lead me to think the author did not watch the game. Of course Wisconsin was better, but the close final score accurately reflects the game and the differential between the two teams.
Had it not been for a previously unknown Badger tight end having a career day and making some "Are You Kidding Me?" catches/"interceptions," WMU could have easily won.
Of course WMU missed Terrell and Davis in 2017. That falls into the "No Sh*t Sherlock" category. Of course there was a leadership transition with an entirely new coaching staff. Hic-ups were expected, but some of the full-scale "barf-out" was not and should not have been. The talent was there to beat CMU and Akron as well as for the offense to score 14 points on Michigan State.
And those who did not expect Fleck to leave after the season were naive. His stock would not be higher and probably never will be again. While I don't appreciate how he left, I can't blame him for leaving when he did. The last WMU coach to win a MAC Championship hung around, only to get fired several years later. Make the big $ while you can.