CSNbbs

Say that they miss Peejay and that this team could be better with him coaching. Do some of you forget that the reason why some of our positions have inexperience is because Peejay NEVER played backups! He had freaking Z.T in when we were wrecking Buffalo 38-0 in the 4th! All it would have taken was a rolled ankle and our cotton bowl / season would have been over.

Just my two cents

PJ had a four year plan. There was no fifth year factored in.

(11-16-2017 09:13 AM)Broncodan Wrote: [ -> ]Say that they miss Peejay and that this team could be better with him coaching. Do some of you forget that the reason why some of our positions have inexperience is because Peejay NEVER played backups! He had freaking Z.T in when we were wrecking Buffalo 38-0 in the 4th! All it would have taken was a rolled ankle and our cotton bowl / season would have been over.

Just my two cents

Given the injuries, I doubt WMU would be much better, if at all, had Fleck stayed. That's all conjecture.

Bottom-line, Fleck didn't stay and I am glad for that, for the long-term benefit of the football program.

What is a given is how much Fleck would be blamed and criticized for this season had he stayed...by the same apologists, puzzies and liars who think Lester is beyond blame.

It is the coach's team/program. Granted, coaches don't fumble and drop passes, but they also don't break tackles and intercept passes, either. They own the good and the bad.

In the end, you are what your record says you are. Results matter.

I don't want PJ back.

I wouldn't mind the players reclaiming some of that urgency and intensity though.

To me SOME of the injuries would likely have been prevented with better preparation in offseason. I don’t believe PJ had magical touch to keep guys healthy or that Lester has caused all 25 injuries. The difference is somewhere in middle of PJ got lucky + pushed guys to play through more and Lester has probably had some bad luck but also needs to demand more to get guys either to be able to withstand more or to be willing to push through.

(11-16-2017 11:05 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]To me SOME of the injuries would likely have been prevented with better preparation in offseason. I don’t believe PJ had magical touch to keep guys healthy or that Lester has caused all 25 injuries. The difference is somewhere in middle of PJ got lucky + pushed guys to play through more and Lester has probably had some bad luck but also needs to demand more to get guys either to be able to withstand more or to be willing to push through.

There is no reason to believe Lester has not "pushed guys to play through more" or that the off season prep was not adequate.

Football is a collision sport. Injuries happen. Looking at teams that have won the MAC Championship over the years, it is usually those who have avoided a serious injury bug like what WMU has experienced this fall.

And a coach needs to be r-e-a-l careful about pushing guys to "play through more." There is a fine line between motivation and abuse.

Ultimately, it is just a game and 99 percent of these kids won't be playing it after college.

(11-16-2017 11:05 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]also needs to demand more to get guys either to be able to withstand more or to be willing to push through.

Which injuries would you like Lester to get guys to "push through"? The broken collarbone? Ruptured spleen maybe? How about broken ankles, torn ACLs and concussions? Bunch of geniuses around here.

To be clear pushing guys harder was the mental edge PJ gave them. This day you’re not allowed to tell a guy to play through an injury because you’ll be sued.

It was developing the mindset in the players of making them do whatever was necessary to get the job done. We know that doesn’t exist under Lester because of what Jarvion said after Central.

The killer mentality Fleck instilled has far more ramifications than just sideline behavior on Gameday.

It’s about a standard that has backslided under Lester than also affects injuries. Players have to do more on their own and they have to be put in the mindset of why they want to. Doing extra stretching and eating correctly and staying hydrated.

I know for a fact PJ told them after Kent State near debacle last year we can keep going like this and finish 11-1 and have a nice bowl game or you can take it upon yourself to do something special.

I don’t believe that same tone is issued under Lester. He may use same words but not same tone

Wow.

(11-16-2017 11:05 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote: [ -> ]To me SOME of the injuries would likely have been prevented with better preparation in offseason. I don’t believe PJ had magical touch to keep guys healthy or that Lester has caused all 25 injuries. The difference is somewhere in middle of PJ got lucky + pushed guys to play through more and Lester has probably had some bad luck but also needs to demand more to get guys either to be able to withstand more or to be willing to push through.

I believe most of the 15 "out for season" are contact injuries. Push through? We had 4-5 guys on crutches at some games. Another 3-4 in walking boots. Couple on those "knee" carts hoofing around with one good foot working. I think you are grabbing for straws myself. The game starts at QB position, both QBs who finished the 2016 season were long gone by fall practice. Developing QBs during the season is a fool's gamble. Lester had no choice.

I'm not a big believer in the idea that putting guys in at garbage time helps significantly develop the players, especially at quarterback which can be a very experience driven position. They won't get a real taste of game speed handing the ball off every time. Maybe running backs and linemen can see some game speed during garbage time.

Depth is always a struggle in every level of football. If Baker Mayfield goes down for Oklahoma I don't think Kyler Murray's numbers against UTEP and Tulane are indicative of how he would preform against West Virginia and whoever they would play in the B12 title game.

I'll defend Lester for a minute here...

Bill Cubit used to say that you needed 3 things to be successful in the MAC:
1. Favorable schedule
2. Avoid the injury bug
3. A little good old fashioned luck

To his point, we haven't had any of these this season.

(11-16-2017 01:07 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ]I'll defend Lester for a minute here...

Bill Cubit used to say that you needed 3 things to be successful in the MAC:
1. Favorable schedule
2. Avoid the injury bug
3. A little good old fashioned luck

To his point, we haven't had any of these this season.

I don't think our schedule was too bad.

- Our OOC was moderate - 2 toughies, 2 weaklings
- The weaker MAC teams were early in our schedule, which we needed to get Wassink, etc., working through the learning curve
- We missed Ohio in the crossover, always a tough out
- Our arch-rival at home

Yes, UT and NIU were road games. However, I'm beginning to wonder if there's any real home field advantage in midweek November MAC games, playing in front of hundreds of people shivering to death.

(11-16-2017 01:07 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ]I'll defend Lester for a minute here...

Bill Cubit used to say that you needed 3 things to be successful in the MAC:
1. Favorable schedule
2. Avoid the injury bug
3. A little good old fashioned luck

To his point, we haven't had any of these this season.

I suppose this falls in the “bad luck” Category, but look at the weather we’ve played in also. It’s been a season of extremes. So many games played in extreme heat or simply miserable conditions. 100-plus in Los Angeles, (which despite what some might think, is NOT normal for them.) well above normal temperatures for both Idaho and Wagner. We all know about Akron and Central, then there was last night when it was so windy that the ball literally looked like it was on a string on a couple punts.

This should NOT be an excuse for our relatively poor play this year, but I suspect that week after week of this has gotta be grinding on any football team.

(11-16-2017 01:24 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2017 01:07 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ]I'll defend Lester for a minute here...

Bill Cubit used to say that you needed 3 things to be successful in the MAC:
1. Favorable schedule
2. Avoid the injury bug
3. A little good old fashioned luck

To his point, we haven't had any of these this season.

I don't think our schedule was too bad.

- Our OOC was moderate - 2 toughies, 2 weaklings
- The weaker MAC teams were early in our schedule, which we needed to get Wassink, etc., working through the learning curve
- We missed Ohio in the crossover, always a tough out
- Our arch-rival at home

Yes, UT and NIU were road games. However, I'm beginning to wonder if there's any real home field advantage in midweek November MAC games, playing in front of hundreds of people shivering to death.

I think most people would categorize USC/MSU non-conference road games, as well as NIU/Toledo road games... a very tough schedule.

Trust me, I'm not making excuses. But I think it's a fair assessment.

(11-16-2017 01:24 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, UT and NIU were road games. However, I'm beginning to wonder if there's any real home field advantage in midweek November MAC games, playing in front of hundreds of people shivering to death.

I think it's the exact opposite: home field advantage is magnified. This season, in conference games, the home team is 9-15 on weekends and 12-6 on weekdays

I never said I want PJ back. the guy was an a$$ how he left. But to suggest he wasn't a tremendous coach who was able to EXPECT and ACHIEVE bigger things from this program than anyone ever wished to even say out loud for fear of being laughed at, is ridiculous. He set high goals, and reached them. Make whatever claims you wish, but you are burying your head in the sand if you think Fleck "got lucky", and Lester has been "unlucky" with injuries or the QB problem he inherited.

One of the reasons Fleck didnt play backups as much as some of us "Monday morning QB's" (who are assessing things a year later) would have done is because we were in the middle of a season so incredible that we had an outside chance to get the sole G5 bid to a New Years bowl game, but needed to be highest ranked G5 team to do it. We were battling other schools with a better pedigree for that spot, and as you all know, style points count. Furthermore, Fleck wasnt going to leave the chance that a team we were up by a couple touchdowns against could potentially come back. So keep ZT in, and maximize our chance at winning. We dont really know what Lester would do because we have not had a lot of games where we were up enough. The games we were supposed to be able to play backups (Akron, Buffalo, Idaho, EMU, CMU) were either too close or we lost.

And, honestly, sometimes I wonder what is the point of getting QB's "experience"? It isnt like they come in and throw passes when the team is up by four touchdowns. They hand the ball off. Not like they are going through their checks to find open receivers. The real purpose is taking the starter out so he doesnt get hurt. If Wassink would have played in some of those situations last year, does anyone really think we would have been any better this year because of that.

Fleck is an easy scapegoat for the Lesterlites; particularly for those folks who never liked Fleck from the beginning, and repeatedly professed how he would never win at WMU, and his ideas and sayings were preposterous. But Lesters team and its results were all on Lester; 100%. Not the fault of Fleck, bad luck, bad weather, or anything other than the decisions he has made since becoming our HC. He inherited a loaded team with talent and experience. He had Talented QB's, including one who did have playing experience (even meaningful playing experience) in Flacko, and Wassink certainly was capable, if not spectacular. I am not certain why Flacko left, but I do know that either Lester wasnt successful at convincing him to stay, or he didnt care if he left. Either way, that situation didnt earn Lester a star, and it left the team with one less QB, and our most experiences QB at that.

There is nothing about this seasons disappointments which should be blamed on Fleck. If you want to call him a characterless douche, fine. No argument. But the guy knew what it takes to win big here, and made it happen. If he and his staff were still here I would bet my house we would have no more that two losses.

(11-16-2017 09:13 AM)Broncodan Wrote: [ -> ]Say that they miss Peejay and that this team could be better with him coaching. Do some of you forget that the reason why some of our positions have inexperience is because Peejay NEVER played backups! He had freaking Z.T in when we were wrecking Buffalo 38-0 in the 4th! All it would have taken was a rolled ankle and our cotton bowl / season would have been over.

Just my two cents

Oh please they had plenty of returning talent. The current staff had all off season to put in a game plan for the players on the team. Its the staffs job to make it work. They didn't

(11-16-2017 03:06 PM)induction Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2017 01:24 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, UT and NIU were road games. However, I'm beginning to wonder if there's any real home field advantage in midweek November MAC games, playing in front of hundreds of people shivering to death.

I think it's the exact opposite: home field advantage is magnified. This season, in conference games, the home team is 9-15 on weekends and 12-6 on weekdays

Wow, interesting, didn't know that. And I'm surprised with how bad home teams do on weekends.

Maybe it's magnified because it's more taxing and disrupts routine to jump on the team bus and head out of town on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, throwing off rhythms. It certainly can't be because of raucous crowd noise.