CSNbbs

Going into the season both WMU and UofM were tasked with replacing several similar key components from last season. Among them were kicker, 3 top receivers, D linemen and O linemen. Both teams were expected to lean on a trio of experienced running backs and talent on the defensive side.

Both offenses have struggled at times through the first 3 games to sustain drives and finish drives with TDs. As expected the transition to new sets of receivers has taken some time. Surprisingly the running games have had trouble getting in gear.

WMU is breaking in a new staff which cannot be discounted when considering the difficulties that the offense is having executing. Whereas UofM is just replacing their passing game coordinator/QB coach.

A big difference is the experience at the QB position. Think what you will about Speight, he is statistically the best returning B1G QB at the long ball, passes of >20 yds. He could be either a top tier B1G QB or just an average FBS passer? But he has been in big pressure games. The jury is still out on him. But the fact that both offenses are struggling with either a new QB or experienced QB points to another factor.

What is often lost in the growing pains of both offenses are the losses on the offensive line. This unit influences the success of the offense on every snap. Everyone points to the obvious losses of Zach & Corey. But I think that the biggest loss to WMU may have been Taylor Moton. Neither unit had a complete rebuild but are experiencing some difficulties regaining last seasons success opening holes or
stopping the pass rush. A 2nd round NFL pick just doesn't get replaced. Another loss in the trenches was Jackson Day who had played in 38 games. Whether it's a P5 offensive line or MAC O line, those are big voids.

Realistically it will take at least 4 games for new receivers to get in sync in the offense. The same goes for the offensive line which for WMU has already experienced injury. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds, but I hope to see steady improvement from these units and coaching otherwise a MACC may be out of the question this season.

Who cares about scUM?

Both teams have been running the run, run, pass, punt offense too. And defenses against them have been running the stack, stack, cover defense.

(09-21-2017 01:02 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares about scUM?

Not me!

This was actually a statement about Westerns biggest issue if you read it.

(09-21-2017 05:34 AM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ]Both teams have been running the run, run, pass, punt offense too. And defenses against them have been running the stack, stack, cover defense.

Pretty much the same last year. The run run helps with TOP. We lack success with pass. Actually punt has been a big plus for us I think we gain field position with that most times.

TOP gives our D a small break.

Actually we have thrown on first quite a bit, I think. Is there a source of stats for that. I don't recall any better success with pass on first opposed to third.

So waiting for pass to gell and then O will improve. I don't care if we getm8 yards on first or third, but we have to get that capability to get success. Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

(09-21-2017 10:18 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

Yep, it's one of the goals of running the ball. You keep TOP, try to wear their O-line, and don't go 3-and-out on dropped passes that take 5 seconds off the clock the whole drive.

It was disappointing watching the offense repeatedly trying to run against MSU with no wrinkles added from the prior performance. We all knew that Dantonio would try to stop the run and force us to pass but we ran no end arounds, reverses or anything to gain the edge. But maybe we don't have the O-lineman to run outside. That reinforces my main point.

As for time of possession, a short route for 4-5 yards is more effective than a run that only gains 2-3 yds. Both plays keep the clock moving. But the 3rd and long situations are what is killing drives and losing TOP. We have to take advantage of 1on1 when they stack the box. Unless the defense fears the pass the running game will not open up.

(09-21-2017 05:48 PM)WMUlaxer97 Wrote: [ -> ]It was disappointing watching the offense repeatedly trying to run against MSU with no wrinkles added from the prior performance. We all knew that Dantonio would try to stop the run and force us to pass but we ran no end arounds, reverses or anything to gain the edge. But maybe we don't have the O-lineman to run outside. That reinforces my main point.

As for time of possession, a short route for 4-5 yards is more effective than a run that only gains 2-3 yds. Both plays keep the clock moving. But the 3rd and long situations are what is killing drives and losing TOP. We have to take advantage of 1on1 when they stack the box. Unless the defense fears the pass the running game will not open up.

I agree of course. We need the pass real bad. Everybody knows that. I think people are saying we should pass on first. Just remember if you miss you are at 2nd and 10. Now you are thinking we better pass. Etc. pretty soon all you are doing is pass. With a young QB then you will see stack, blitz, blitz, punt. Maybe with an injured and paranoid QB to boot. And as the game wears on you,D is exhausted and demoralized. Sacks. Penalties. Losses.

The short routes are pretty good percentage for a completion. But if you are swinging something out there from your 20 or 25, a pick goes for six, a big hit you can lose a fumble in the red zone.

The pass game will come, many elements on the team are sound, we will be OK. We are plenty good to just run basic football vs. most MAC teams. Build on that.

(09-21-2017 01:02 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares about scUM?

As I've attended both schools, I do..since you asked.

(09-22-2017 07:47 PM)CincoDosAdios Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 01:02 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares about scUM?

As I've attended both schools, I do..since you asked.

So CDA, what year did you purchase your T-Shirt?

(09-21-2017 04:22 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 10:18 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

Yep, it's one of the goals of running the ball. You keep TOP, try to wear their O-line, and don't go 3-and-out on dropped passes that take 5 seconds off the clock the whole drive.

The thing is, and I know the "experts" talk about TOP being important because you don't want your defense getting tired, but the other teams offense is on the field working hard when our defense is out there. What is it that prevents the offense for the other team getting as tired as our D? Don't the receivers actually run a few steps more than the defensive backs? Aren't the O-linemen huffing and puffing as much as the D-linemen? So, if the defense is getting tired because they have been on the field for a long time, the offense is too, and the offense is the side which has to "execute" with more precision, and therefore exhaustion should be worse for the offense than the defense. This is another silly stat.

What matters is scoring more points. That will always be a very important statistic. And if you are predictable on offense, or you run when the defense is playing for the run, or pass when the defenses is playing for the pass, you won't score as many point as you would doing just the opposite. And in the end you will score less points more often than not, unless you are so grossly more talented than the other team that you can win even with a ridiculously stupid strategy. Those who challenge this concept can do so, but that's about as silly as predictably running on first down.

The difference is that the offense calls the plays and therefore, is always a step ahead of the defense.

Defense is always the one having to react and give chase.

(09-22-2017 09:04 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 04:22 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 10:18 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

Yep, it's one of the goals of running the ball. You keep TOP, try to wear their O-line, and don't go 3-and-out on dropped passes that take 5 seconds off the clock the whole drive.

The thing is, and I know the "experts" talk about TOP being important because you don't want your defense getting tired, but the other teams offense is on the field working hard when our defense is out there. What is it that prevents the offense for the other team getting as tired as our D? Don't the receivers actually run a few steps more than the defensive backs? Aren't the O-linemen huffing and puffing as much as the D-linemen? So, if the defense is getting tired because they have been on the field for a long time, the offense is too, and the offense is the side which has to "execute" with more precision, and therefore exhaustion should be worse for the offense than the defense. This is another silly stat.

What matters is scoring more points. That will always be a very important statistic. And if you are predictable on offense, or you run when the defense is playing for the run, or pass when the defenses is playing for the pass, you won't score as many point as you would doing just the opposite. And in the end you will score less points more often than not, unless you are so grossly more talented than the other team that you can win even with a ridiculously stupid strategy. Those who challenge this concept can do so, but that's about as silly as predictably running on first down.

Actually, Brovol, I'm pretty sure Lester agrees with you. He's heavily into math. And winning.

(09-22-2017 09:14 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote: [ -> ]The difference is that the offense calls the plays and therefore, is always a step ahead of the defense.

Defense is always the one having to react and give chase.

Not to mention the OL remains intact for entire drives while the D shuffles its line for constant fresh legs... it takes longer to wear down a DL than an OL so if you have the horses to run the ball well it wreaks more havoc in the DL. Forcing the OL to pass protect all the time wears down the offense.

(09-22-2017 09:04 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 04:22 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 10:18 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

Yep, it's one of the goals of running the ball. You keep TOP, try to wear their O-line, and don't go 3-and-out on dropped passes that take 5 seconds off the clock the whole drive.

The thing is, and I know the "experts" talk about TOP being important because you don't want your defense getting tired, but the other teams offense is on the field working hard when our defense is out there. What is it that prevents the offense for the other team getting as tired as our D? Don't the receivers actually run a few steps more than the defensive backs? Aren't the O-linemen huffing and puffing as much as the D-linemen? So, if the defense is getting tired because they have been on the field for a long time, the offense is too, and the offense is the side which has to "execute" with more precision, and therefore exhaustion should be worse for the offense than the defense. This is another silly stat.

What matters is scoring more points. That will always be a very important statistic. And if you are predictable on offense, or you run when the defense is playing for the run, or pass when the defenses is playing for the pass, you won't score as many point as you would doing just the opposite. And in the end you will score less points more often than not, unless you are so grossly more talented than the other team that you can win even with a ridiculously stupid strategy. Those who challenge this concept can do so, but that's about as silly as predictably running on first down.

An OT, OG, or center doesn't get doubled on every play. Slamming yourself into 600+ pounds of pissed off human beings 40 or so times a game is incredibly exhausting, traumatic, and cumulative. Not nearly as exhausting, traumatic, or cumulative as slamming yourself, in tandem with another 300 pound companion, into a 300 lbs NT or 3-tech.

(09-23-2017 09:02 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2017 09:04 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 04:22 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 10:18 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]Cubit would just throw it every time and try for quick strike. But that killed the D.

Yep, it's one of the goals of running the ball. You keep TOP, try to wear their O-line, and don't go 3-and-out on dropped passes that take 5 seconds off the clock the whole drive.

The thing is, and I know the "experts" talk about TOP being important because you don't want your defense getting tired, but the other teams offense is on the field working hard when our defense is out there. What is it that prevents the offense for the other team getting as tired as our D? Don't the receivers actually run a few steps more than the defensive backs? Aren't the O-linemen huffing and puffing as much as the D-linemen? So, if the defense is getting tired because they have been on the field for a long time, the offense is too, and the offense is the side which has to "execute" with more precision, and therefore exhaustion should be worse for the offense than the defense. This is another silly stat.

What matters is scoring more points. That will always be a very important statistic. And if you are predictable on offense, or you run when the defense is playing for the run, or pass when the defenses is playing for the pass, you won't score as many point as you would doing just the opposite. And in the end you will score less points more often than not, unless you are so grossly more talented than the other team that you can win even with a ridiculously stupid strategy. Those who challenge this concept can do so, but that's about as silly as predictably running on first down.

An OT, OG, or center doesn't get doubled on every play. Slamming yourself into 600+ pounds of pissed off human beings 40 or so times a game is incredibly exhausting, traumatic, and cumulative. Not nearly as exhausting, traumatic, or cumulative as slamming yourself, in tandem with another 300 pound companion, into a 300 lbs NT or 3-tech.

There are 11 guys on each side, and all work hard. Offensive linemen are generally the biggest guys on the field, with the most body fat. To suggest that they don't work as hard as the D-linemen may be less than 100% accurate.

TOP has as much to do with whether the plays are ending with a stopped clock, and less to do with how many plays are occurring during a drive. I'm not saying it's not relevant at all, but I think it's an overrated statistic, and I don't think the defense suffers more than the offense.

Quote:Not nearly as exhausting, traumatic, or cumulative as slamming yourself, in tandem with another 300 pound companion

Yeah, as college has taught me -- those are some exhausting, traumatic, and regretful nights sometimes!

Brovol, you're discounting the fact that naturally there are 11 guys on defense all chasing/giving pursuit to one singular player who's carrying the ball. Beyond the physical exhaustion, there is also mental exhaustion especially on long drive where several third downs are converting... can be demoralizing to a defense.

(09-23-2017 12:13 PM)toddjnsn Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Not nearly as exhausting, traumatic, or cumulative as slamming yourself, in tandem with another 300 pound companion

Yeah, as college has taught me -- those are some exhausting, traumatic, and regretful nights sometimes!