Freshman enrollment at University of Missouri is down by 35% from 2 years ago:
2015: 6191
2016: 4772
2017:
Projected at 4000
How does this affect their sports programs?
Two years ago, Mizzou was the 4th biggest SEC school (35,448 students). It will probably slip to 6th or 7th this year. If this is the new normal, in 4 years enrollment will be at 23,000, 3rd smallest in the SEC. With
the university's budget crisis, the state's
budget crisis, and their
layoffs (which I am told have even hit major cash-cow programs), it could get even worse.
Mizzou had the best 5-year in its athletic history during their last 5 years in the Big 12. But the last 2 years have been awful in both sports (18 wins in basketball, 9 in football over two years). Is it all downhill from here?
Can their athletics department compete in the SEC with fewer resources?
Does the SEC come to regret adding Missouri over West Virginia?
** Let's keep politics out of this. I'm just wondering about the affect on their sports programs **
Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
That's right, they're the only FBS university in a state of 6 million people.
Their athletics should be fine, though
they appear to have marketing and image problems that should be far more worrisome than athletic finances or athletic W-L records.
(09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
(09-01-2017 02:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
Top 5 recruiting class with #1 player in the nation coming in and an actual head coach. They had some decent talent but a horrible, horrible head coach who was way in over his head in D1 basketball.
(09-01-2017 02:22 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
Top 5 recruiting class with #1 player in the nation coming in and an actual head coach. They had some decent talent but a horrible, horrible head coach who was way in over his head in D1 basketball.
Speaking from experience: Mizzou's new head coach may also be over his head in the coaching department, but he is an A-plus recruiter.
(09-01-2017 02:22 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
Top 5 recruiting class with #1 player in the nation coming in and an actual head coach. They had some decent talent but a horrible, horrible head coach who was way in over his head in D1 basketball.
They'll definitely improve and it's a little hard to believe they fell off as much as they did, but it will probably take Martin more than one year to put everything together.
The SEC has been improving steadily the last 2-3 years so I don't think Mizzou will be among the best, but they should be competitive.
(09-01-2017 02:25 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:22 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
Top 5 recruiting class with #1 player in the nation coming in and an actual head coach. They had some decent talent but a horrible, horrible head coach who was way in over his head in D1 basketball.
Speaking from experience: Mizzou's new head coach may also be over his head in the coaching department, but he is an A-plus recruiter.
Speaking from experience: I've seen him coach well. He had no bad fits for him in Knoxville and Berkeley. Columbia is perfect for him.
(09-01-2017 02:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:25 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:22 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 02:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Donations to the athletic program are doing well. They will be fine in the SEC. Basketball program will be near the top of the SEC this year. Still MU is an AAU university in a major populated state with 2 top 30 tv markets. SEC loves their addition.
Dont know if I would consider Missouri to be a major population state at 6 million in population when you consider states like Cal-37 million, Texas at 25 million, Florida-20 million and New York- 20 million. I also dont know how Missouri is supposed to be near the top of the SEC this year when they only won 2 games last season and was ranked dead last. But I do believe the issues facing Mizzu are the type that can be fixed.
Top 5 recruiting class with #1 player in the nation coming in and an actual head coach. They had some decent talent but a horrible, horrible head coach who was way in over his head in D1 basketball.
Speaking from experience: Mizzou's new head coach may also be over his head in the coaching department, but he is an A-plus recruiter.
Speaking from experience: I've seen him coach well. He had no bad fits for him in Knoxville and Berkeley. Columbia is perfect for him.
Cuonzo didn't get nearly enough out of players as talented as Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb. He'll have to get more out his recruits at Mizzou, and get them to improve while they are there, to get as far as Mizzou fans hope.
Mizzou's enrollment problems are an issue. There are more than a couple of factors that have exacerbated this issue.
1. The protests on campus and the athlete's threatened boycott coupled with the police shooting incidents created a hostile environment on campus with the assistance of some complicit faculty. The administrations ham handed handling of the situation only spiked negative press coverage which created and image problem which when compared to normal student life at Missouri was blown way out of proportion. Imagine that! Gee that never happens with the media anywhere else does it?
2. Becoming an SEC school didn't help their draw out of Illinois and other Big 10 areas. Missouri had long been a go to for lower costs in education and as a member of the Old Big 8 was well enough respected in the area for parents to feel that it would not affect their child's educational standing. But while Missouri is still AAU, there branding with the SEC isn't going to deliver the same way as the Old Big 8 or the Big 12. The SEC just seems foreign to Midwestern states.
3. Perhaps the greatest issue facing schools everywhere is the downturn in enrollment aged potential students. Why have schools like Alabama lower admission standards? They are going after volume of students and the revenue they will generate to cover their overhead without having to cut back.
This is why there will continue to be what will eventually become apparent to everyone, a massive consolidation of higher education within state systems which will lead to academic focusing like we once had. Jr. Colleges may well become trade schools for tech jobs. Smaller state schools may focus their market to become essentially "teachers colleges", or "engineering schools". The main state schools will conduct the bulk of the research and PHD work. But those main state schools will do everything necessary to increase enrollment in order not to have to shrink their primary disciplines during the downturn.
So as the GI Bill following WWII, and the Boomer generation they spawned, and the X'ers floated all educational boats and drove the need for more mid sized state schools, for JR colleges, and filled the flagships rosters with a higher scoring group of incoming High School graduates, we are now going to see the ebbing tide take us back to 1930's & 40's like numbers and demands.
Since the Midwest has a hard time holding onto it's population Missouri is being hit hard, but then so too is Kansas which hasn't received as much publicity because they still carry a Midwestern brand.
So it's a confluence of all of these factors that have played into Mizzou's downturn.
4. But like Arkansas, and L.S.U. it is the only major brand school in the state. And compared to Iowa, Kansas, and Oklahoma it is the larger of the populated Midwestern States in the Big 12. Missouri will be fine. But it may take them a few more years for things to settle. Right now it is not a destination school for the kids who didn't get into their favorite Big 10 school, and it is still new and remote to be a destination school for kids coming from SEC states.
But before you single out Missouri for this mess, you better start checking your own school's enrollment criteria and their enrollment numbers, because you just may not realize the demographic shift in your own school that is spotlighted at Missouri.
5. Now add all of this to a stagnant economy (the +3% economic growth is a baked in number from the formula used to inform the FED) and it simply is what it is and it will be coming soon to a school near you unless you live in California, Texas, Florida, or parts of the Atlantic Coast. New York City is immune but I'm not so sure about the rest of their state.
(09-01-2017 11:44 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]Freshman enrollment at University of Missouri is down by 35% from 2 years ago:
2015: 6191
2016: 4772
2017: Projected at 4000
How does this affect their sports programs?
Two years ago, Mizzou was the 4th biggest SEC school (35,448 students). It will probably slip to 6th or 7th this year. If this is the new normal, in 4 years enrollment will be at 23,000, 3rd smallest in the SEC. With the university's budget crisis, the state's budget crisis, and their layoffs (which I am told have even hit major cash-cow programs), it could get even worse.
Mizzou had the best 5-year in its athletic history during their last 5 years in the Big 12. But the last 2 years have been awful in both sports (18 wins in basketball, 9 in football over two years). Is it all downhill from here?
Can their athletics department compete in the SEC with fewer resources?
Does the SEC come to regret adding Missouri over West Virginia?
** Let's keep politics out of this. I'm just wondering about the affect on their sports programs **
It's going to take major change to make a difference in the perception of Missouri.
I think that major change starts with the school moving to the B1G with Kansas.
(09-01-2017 04:40 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 11:44 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]Freshman enrollment at University of Missouri is down by 35% from 2 years ago:
2015: 6191
2016: 4772
2017: Projected at 4000
How does this affect their sports programs?
Two years ago, Mizzou was the 4th biggest SEC school (35,448 students). It will probably slip to 6th or 7th this year. If this is the new normal, in 4 years enrollment will be at 23,000, 3rd smallest in the SEC. With the university's budget crisis, the state's budget crisis, and their layoffs (which I am told have even hit major cash-cow programs), it could get even worse.
Mizzou had the best 5-year in its athletic history during their last 5 years in the Big 12. But the last 2 years have been awful in both sports (18 wins in basketball, 9 in football over two years). Is it all downhill from here?
Can their athletics department compete in the SEC with fewer resources?
Does the SEC come to regret adding Missouri over West Virginia?
** Let's keep politics out of this. I'm just wondering about the affect on their sports programs **
It's going to take major change to make a difference in the perception of Missouri.
I think that major change starts with the school moving to the B1G with Kansas.
Missouri doesn't cut it with the B1G.
SEC could have done better with TCU but didn't look that direction.
(09-01-2017 06:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 04:40 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 11:44 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]Freshman enrollment at University of Missouri is down by 35% from 2 years ago:
2015: 6191
2016: 4772
2017: Projected at 4000
How does this affect their sports programs?
Two years ago, Mizzou was the 4th biggest SEC school (35,448 students). It will probably slip to 6th or 7th this year. If this is the new normal, in 4 years enrollment will be at 23,000, 3rd smallest in the SEC. With the university's budget crisis, the state's budget crisis, and their layoffs (which I am told have even hit major cash-cow programs), it could get even worse.
Mizzou had the best 5-year in its athletic history during their last 5 years in the Big 12. But the last 2 years have been awful in both sports (18 wins in basketball, 9 in football over two years). Is it all downhill from here?
Can their athletics department compete in the SEC with fewer resources?
Does the SEC come to regret adding Missouri over West Virginia?
** Let's keep politics out of this. I'm just wondering about the affect on their sports programs **
It's going to take major change to make a difference in the perception of Missouri.
I think that major change starts with the school moving to the B1G with Kansas.
Missouri doesn't cut it with the B1G.
SEC could have done better with TCU but didn't look that direction.
The Big10 is where Mizzou belongs. They're a perfect fit and I think that's where they end up with Kansas.
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Mizzou is perfect for the SEC and they aren't leaving for the Big Ten.
There will never be any regret over not adding WVU.
Mizzou's problems are temporary in my opinion.
(09-01-2017 08:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]There will never be any regret over not adding WVU.
Mizzou's problems are temporary in my opinion.
I agree.
At some point school leaders will realize that bending policies and image to a handful of radical leftist faculty has detrimental effects on the school's ability to attract middle class families. Only in ridiculously impacted schools like the UC system or UNC or UVa would stupid moves like that not have an impact on that.
And it is all image. If you are taking Nursing or Business Administration or Chemistry or Engineering or Comp Sci, then all that nonsense is not part of your experience.
I only encountered these radical types in a couple GE classes I had to take. (I had an interesting "discussion" with one ultra feminist Professor that .. well it was very strange.) Most Profs in the professional fields are head down work on their field types. They are overworked (have to teach max number of class their contract allows, plus take on advising and research) and have no time for such idiocy. I'm sure most are liberals, even very liberal, but they are not too concerned with that stuff, their too busy wit real work to be radical.
(09-01-2017 04:03 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]But before you single out Missouri for this mess, you better start checking your own school's enrollment criteria and their enrollment numbers, because you just may not realize the demographic shift in your own school that is spotlighted at Missouri.
I looked at IPEDS data on the size of incoming freshman classes at P5 + American + Big East + Mountain West schools. From 2014-2015 (the most recent year available), the average school's incoming freshman class went up by 2.3%. From 2013-2015, it went up 5.2%.
Cincinnati has set enrollment records in each of the past 2 years (actually I think for most of the past decade). We're not alone.
The smaller number of high school grads is being counterbalanced by 3 things:
1) The increased separation of "good" schools from "bad schools. In other words, the decreases in enrollment will be at lower-end schools that (mostly) don't play D-1 sports. Only 11% of the 3,000 4-year colleges in the USA play D-1 sports, and they (mostly) tend to be the ones with better academic reputations.
2) higher international enrollment
3) a (still) increasing percentage of high school grads who attend college
(09-05-2017 02:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 04:03 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]But before you single out Missouri for this mess, you better start checking your own school's enrollment criteria and their enrollment numbers, because you just may not realize the demographic shift in your own school that is spotlighted at Missouri.
I looked at IPEDS data on the size of incoming freshman classes at P5 + American + Big East + Mountain West schools. From 2014-2015 (the most recent year available), the average school's incoming freshman class went up by 2.3%. From 2013-2015, it went up 5.2%.
Cincinnati has set enrollment records in each of the past 2 years (actually I think for most of the past decade). We're not alone.
The smaller number of high school grads is being counterbalanced by 3 things:
1) The increased separation of "good" schools from "bad schools. In other words, the decreases in enrollment will be at lower-end schools that (mostly) don't play D-1 sports. Only 11% of the 3,000 4-year colleges in the USA play D-1 sports, and they (mostly) tend to be the ones with better academic reputations.
Would be interesting if there was a reliable way to determine if having any kind of D-I athletics helps student recruiting at public universities over other public universities that are not in D-I. I suspect that having Alabama football or Kansas basketball helps a lot more than just being a random D-I school that doesn't excel in any popular sport.
(09-05-2017 03:33 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2017 02:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017 04:03 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]But before you single out Missouri for this mess, you better start checking your own school's enrollment criteria and their enrollment numbers, because you just may not realize the demographic shift in your own school that is spotlighted at Missouri.
I looked at IPEDS data on the size of incoming freshman classes at P5 + American + Big East + Mountain West schools. From 2014-2015 (the most recent year available), the average school's incoming freshman class went up by 2.3%. From 2013-2015, it went up 5.2%.
Cincinnati has set enrollment records in each of the past 2 years (actually I think for most of the past decade). We're not alone.
The smaller number of high school grads is being counterbalanced by 3 things:
1) The increased separation of "good" schools from "bad schools. In other words, the decreases in enrollment will be at lower-end schools that (mostly) don't play D-1 sports. Only 11% of the 3,000 4-year colleges in the USA play D-1 sports, and they (mostly) tend to be the ones with better academic reputations.
Would be interesting if there was a reliable way to determine if having any kind of D-I athletics helps student recruiting at public universities over other public universities that are not in D-I. I suspect that having Alabama football or Kansas basketball helps a lot more than just being a random D-I school that doesn't excel in any popular sport.
Enrollment has been documented to spike when a surprising team does well in the NCAA tournament. I think that's as reliable as you'll get.
I'm sure the same is true in football, although it's a much rarer occurance.
However I suspect that it's regional. In the Midwest and the South, every public school over 15,000 students is in D-1. Nearly all of them play FBS football (UW-Milwaukee, Illinois State, Illinois-Chicago, Northern Iowa, MO State, UMKC, Wayne State, and Texas-Rio Grande are the only exceptions I can think of).
I think that's because it would be suicide to enrollment NOT to be D-1 in those regions.
But in California and the Northeast, many of the largest 4-year public schools aren't in D-1 at all (UC-Santa Cruz, SF State, CSU-LA, CSU-Pomona, CSU-Chico, CSU-SB, Western Washington, the entire CUNY system, CCNY, UMass-Boston). Some of them (UC-SF, Thomas Edison State University in New Jersey) don't even have ANY athletic program. All of those would probably need to be FBS if they were located in, say, Alabama.