There is often talk about college athletes taking easy-A classes, or one-and-done players who do nothing in school except stay barely eligible for one semester.
"Reclassification" is another twist that makes the "student" part of "student-athlete" seem more dubious.
Today's example is a basketball player named Marvin Bagley III. He was a high school junior a few months ago.
Coach K has convinced him to play basketball at Duke this fall. Marvin is apparently taking an entire senior year's worth of high school classes this summer so that he can get a high school diploma this month and play basketball at Duke in the fall.
He's not the only one.
Jontay Porter is also "reclassifying" and skipping his senior year in high school, he will play at Missouri where his brother (who is a year older) will also be a freshman and his dad was just hired as an assistant coach (purely coincidental, no doubt).
The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady, as does the notion that a high school junior whose focus is basketball (as opposed to, say, math or physics) is as ready for college courses as the typical Duke freshman. Of course these "reclassifying" players are hoping to be one-and-done in college anyway, so they're just trying to stay barely eligible until their team is done playing in March.
Next time one of these coaches makes a rote comment about the importance of education, someone should ask him how recruiting players to skip their senior year of high school and be a one-and-done player in college fits in with that.
2nd year in a row for Duke.
The process allows a player to get into his second NBA contract more quickly, thus giving him more years in the league with peak earning potential (greed of the player/parent/agent without even mentioning a school taking advantage of the student-athlete).
Doesn't the NBA have a minimum age? My point is, if a kid is skipping his senior year of high school, doesn't that mean he'll be 17 after the college season is done and he's hoping to move on to the NBA later that same year?
For some reason, I thought you had to be at least 19. Maybe they plan to play in the "minor leagues" of professional basketball, whatever that is in the US, that doesn't have the same age requirement?
(08-15-2017 10:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't the NBA have a minimum age? My point is, if a kid is skipping his senior year of high school, doesn't that mean he'll be 17 after the college season is done and he's hoping to move on to the NBA later that same year?
For some reason, I thought you had to be at least 19. Maybe they plan to play in the "minor leagues" of professional basketball, whatever that is in the US, that doesn't have the same age requirement?
I think you can start playing in Europe at a very early age.
(08-15-2017 10:43 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]The process allows a player to get into his second NBA contract more quickly, thus giving him more years in the league with peak earning potential (greed of the player/parent/agent without even mentioning a school taking advantage of the student-athlete).
Right. From Coach K's point of view, if you bring the kid in after his HS junior year, then you short-circuit the competition with other college teams that normally happens during the player's HS senior year. Don't have to worry about the kid flipping from Duke to UCLA or Kentucky, because he's already enrolled at Duke.
The NBA probably loves it, too, because given a choice between evaluating an 18-year-old player based on his senior year of HS or evaluating him based on a year of playing at Duke, they'll choose the latter every time. But that just emphasizes that the coach is running a pre-NBA finishing program and not so much a
college team.
(08-15-2017 10:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't the NBA have a minimum age? My point is, if a kid is skipping his senior year of high school, doesn't that mean he'll be 17 after the college season is done and he's hoping to move on to the NBA later that same year?
For some reason, I thought you had to be at least 19. Maybe they plan to play in the "minor leagues" of professional basketball, whatever that is in the US, that doesn't have the same age requirement?
Bagley is 9 months older than I was when I graduated from high school, and I didn't skip any grades. He will be 19 after his first year at Duke, and eligible to be drafted by the NBA.
Ah, I see. That is an important detail, for why this could be a one-off rather than a trend.
(08-15-2017 11:55 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, I see. That is an important detail, for why this could be a one-off rather than a trend.
I think it's more problematic for Porter, who won't turn 19 until November of 2018. I believe he will have to stay at Mizzou for two years. Assuming his older brother (rated the #1 player in this recruiting class (before Bagley reclassified) is one and done, this would be the younger Porter's only chance to play in college with his brother.
Michael Porter had originally committed to Washington, but was released to follow his father to Mizzou. The dad was just hired as an assistant coach by Mizzou, after he lost his job at Washington when they fired their head coach.
(08-15-2017 10:32 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady
Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
In that case, I don't have a problem with it. You can argue that it's probably a sham to take a whole senior year's worth of credit in a summer ... but on the other hand you could argue that the student will be ultra focused on the goal and actually learn more in that summer than what a typical (lowly motivated) senior learns the whole school year.
If they aren't doing it just to get eligible, to then just one-and-done -- which I agree is a sad picture as painted in the OP -- then they'll actually have to succeed in college for at least a year and a half (and probably take summer courses as well).
(08-15-2017 01:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
If high school is four years, and each semester has X hours in the school day, where one class lasts a semester and meets the same hour, five days a week, then the school district should be requiring enough "actual" courses completed over four years so that a student has to mostly take "actual" classes during all eight semesters.
I don't see how it's possible then to "get ahead", as a lot of the "actual" classes are a progression. IE, you take geology in ninth grade, biology tenth, chemistry 11th, physics 12th ... or whatever.
(08-15-2017 01:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 10:32 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady
Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
I'm not surprised that many students can do that under normal high school circumstances. But an elite basketball player who spends at least as much time with his AAU team as he does at high school? Maybe AAU teams are hooking up with some institution offering online high school credits that athletes can use toward HS graduation at schools that accept pretty much any transfer credit. Who knows.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's theoretically possible to take several high school classes in summer school, but again, skepticism is warranted.
(08-15-2017 10:32 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]There is often talk about college athletes taking easy-A classes, or one-and-done players who do nothing in school except stay barely eligible for one semester.
"Reclassification" is another twist that makes the "student" part of "student-athlete" seem more dubious.
Today's example is a basketball player named Marvin Bagley III. He was a high school junior a few months ago. Coach K has convinced him to play basketball at Duke this fall. Marvin is apparently taking an entire senior year's worth of high school classes this summer so that he can get a high school diploma this month and play basketball at Duke in the fall.
He's not the only one. Jontay Porter is also "reclassifying" and skipping his senior year in high school, he will play at Missouri where his brother (who is a year older) will also be a freshman and his dad was just hired as an assistant coach (purely coincidental, no doubt).
The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady, as does the notion that a high school junior whose focus is basketball (as opposed to, say, math or physics) is as ready for college courses as the typical Duke freshman. Of course these "reclassifying" players are hoping to be one-and-done in college anyway, so they're just trying to stay barely eligible until their team is done playing in March.
Next time one of these coaches makes a rote comment about the importance of education, someone should ask him how recruiting players to skip their senior year of high school and be a one-and-done player in college fits in with that.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's shady, but it does question a few things. I say this because my oldest son (not an athlete in any way and not comparable to the Duke student) was in a non-conventional Math track in our local public school system. Since he didn't fit in to any of the usual patterns, the lack-of-gudance counseling didn't know what to do with him. He was excelling in high school math and I wanted him placed in honors (8 marking periods of As while bored in the class). the school ssytem didn't agree with me but after a protracted battle at the end of his sophomore year I got the consent to move him into an honors Senior level math class if he took the equivalent of a junior year math class during the summer.
While I nearly broke blood vessels and screamed at anyone who wanted to listen (and some that didn't), we did enroll him for the class, and the school system followed through on their end. The class was 5 to 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for 5 or 6 weeks.
It was certainly doable if the student is motivated to do so.
But that was just for one class, not for an entire slate of classes for an academic year. That's the part that I would question.
(08-15-2017 02:06 PM)megadrone Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 10:32 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]There is often talk about college athletes taking easy-A classes, or one-and-done players who do nothing in school except stay barely eligible for one semester.
"Reclassification" is another twist that makes the "student" part of "student-athlete" seem more dubious.
Today's example is a basketball player named Marvin Bagley III. He was a high school junior a few months ago. Coach K has convinced him to play basketball at Duke this fall. Marvin is apparently taking an entire senior year's worth of high school classes this summer so that he can get a high school diploma this month and play basketball at Duke in the fall.
He's not the only one. Jontay Porter is also "reclassifying" and skipping his senior year in high school, he will play at Missouri where his brother (who is a year older) will also be a freshman and his dad was just hired as an assistant coach (purely coincidental, no doubt).
The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady, as does the notion that a high school junior whose focus is basketball (as opposed to, say, math or physics) is as ready for college courses as the typical Duke freshman. Of course these "reclassifying" players are hoping to be one-and-done in college anyway, so they're just trying to stay barely eligible until their team is done playing in March.
Next time one of these coaches makes a rote comment about the importance of education, someone should ask him how recruiting players to skip their senior year of high school and be a one-and-done player in college fits in with that.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's shady, but it does question a few things. I say this because my oldest son (not an athlete in any way and not comparable to the Duke student) was in a non-conventional Math track in our local public school system. Since he didn't fit in to any of the usual patterns, the lack-of-gudance counseling didn't know what to do with him. He was excelling in high school math and I wanted him placed in honors (8 marking periods of As while bored in the class). the school ssytem didn't agree with me but after a protracted battle at the end of his sophomore year I got the consent to move him into an honors Senior level math class if he took the equivalent of a junior year math class during the summer.
While I nearly broke blood vessels and screamed at anyone who wanted to listen (and some that didn't), we did enroll him for the class, and the school system followed through on their end. The class was 5 to 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for 5 or 6 weeks.
It was certainly doable if the student is motivated to do so. But that was just for one class, not for an entire slate of classes for an academic year. That's the part that I would question.
My senior year of HS I took 6 AP classes + band, meaning I was basically done with high school level coursework junior year. I took four years in college, three more for my masters, and am now working on a doctorate. I am 30. My projected completion of the doctorate is when I am 33.
Now, if I had graduated HS early (17), done a five year masters program (22) that I now know is available, and gone straight into my doctoral studies I could have been done at age 26, and had a college professor job at age 27. Thats a six year difference, maybe $150,000 dollars more over 6 years. Had I known what I know now, I would have done that (of course, I would have risked not meeting my wife, so it worked out, but the point stands)
The same principle applies here. These guys can graduate early and earn millions more over their careers. I have no issue with kids graduating early if they can. And as to summer classes, even in my master's level work there were summer intensive courses that helped students get ahead of their projected graduation dates. With AP tests and CLEP tests, there are certainly ways to measure if the classes stand up to scrutiny.
(08-15-2017 01:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 01:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
If high school is four years, and each semester has X hours in the school day, where one class lasts a semester and meets the same hour, five days a week, then the school district should be requiring enough "actual" courses completed over four years so that a student has to mostly take "actual" classes during all eight semesters.
I don't see how it's possible then to "get ahead", as a lot of the "actual" classes are a progression. IE, you take geology in ninth grade, biology tenth, chemistry 11th, physics 12th ... or whatever.
In Florida I was able to take HS algebra I in 8th grade. In North Carolina I was able to take geometry and algebra II in the same year. I was also able to take chemistry and physics in the same year. Of course you had to have waivers signed by parents, teachers, a lunch lady and that shifty guy that hangs out at the gas station. By senior year several kids were taking college level classes and getting credit for them.
Community colleges also offer HS credit courses.
Most kids graduate with more credits than the minimum they actually need. 4 years of 6 credits per year will give you 24 credits. The minimum may actually be 20 credits.
It's not easy to get that far ahead (congrats to Kap's kid on all that hard work) but it is possible.
(08-15-2017 01:57 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 01:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 10:32 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]The idea of summer schools geared to help kids do this by giving them a year's worth of high school credit in 10 weeks seems kind of shady
Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
I'm not surprised that many students can do that under normal high school circumstances. But an elite basketball player who spends at least as much time with his AAU team as he does at high school? Maybe AAU teams are hooking up with some institution offering online high school credits that athletes can use toward HS graduation at schools that accept pretty much any transfer credit. Who knows.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's theoretically possible to take several high school classes in summer school, but again, skepticism is warranted.
My son was an athletic trainer so he actually had a harder schedule than a student-athlete because when they were done they went home. He still had at least an hour or more of equipment cleanup.
Oh and he worked the entire school year. Football in the fall...two to three games a week depending on where B team ad JV played and every practice, basketball and wrestling in the winter....including tournaments over Christmas break, baseball, softball and soccer during the spring.
Oh yeah...and he was an Explorer with our EMS agency and was required to do a minimum of 24 hours ride time each month. He usually did more because he was a mentor to new Explorers.
If he can do it anybody can.
(08-15-2017 01:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2017 01:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on the situation. My oldest could have taken one class the summer between his Junior and Senior year and graduated because he had already completed everything else. His Senior year in HS consisted of one actual class and whatever elective he felt would be fun to take to occupy his time. His second semester was all electives.
If high school is four years, and each semester has X hours in the school day, where one class lasts a semester and meets the same hour, five days a week, then the school district should be requiring enough "actual" courses completed over four years so that a student has to mostly take "actual" classes during all eight semesters.
I don't see how it's possible then to "get ahead", as a lot of the "actual" classes are a progression. IE, you take geology in ninth grade, biology tenth, chemistry 11th, physics 12th ... or whatever.
Because of his grades my son was able to "double down" on his maths in 7th and 8th grade so when he reached HS in 9th grade he only had to complete two math credits. He finished them up in 9th grade by forgoing a study hall period. Also he was exempt from the PE requirement because of his duties as an athletic trainer so that freed up another semester where he got further ahead. He was in the top quarter in his graduating class and scored high enough on the ASVAB to be able to pick whatever MOS he wanted, but as always he had a plan and stuck with it and became a medic.
Kap and wolf, thanks for educating me! Been a few years since I had to last deal with school rules.
Sounds like great opportunities, for those who choose to utilize them.
With respect to the OP, could well mean that the senior to be only needed to take one or two classes to graduate high school meeting the reqs. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.
I was mostly referring to a post talking about a student making up a year -- an entire academic year, not just one class -- in summer school. That would be a tall order. One or two classes, sure, but the requirements for a whole year would have been tough.