CSNbbs

Would make sense for both teams. Grizz would get younger and more scoring and the cavs would get the true point guard that LBJ has always lacked.

Money doesn't match.

Conley is making $28mm this year, Kyrie is $18mm.

Cleveland needs to throw in about an extra $10mm to make it match.

(07-21-2017 04:34 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Money doesn't match.

Conley is making $28mm this year, Kyrie is $18mm.

Cleveland needs to throw in about an extra $10mm to make it match.

If you add Marc and Love to the trade, it works in the ESPN trade machine.

Cleveland apparently has trade exceptions.

The problem is Cleveland is over the cap and wouldn't want to add payroll because $10 million turns into a $20 million tax I believe.

If you trade Marc for Love then you deserve the dismal results you will receive.

Marc is 32 and has maybe two more years of productivity.

Love is 28 and being played out of position. Guy can grab 10 rebounds in a game in his sleep. Marc averaged less than 7 last year and both scored 19 ppg.

James has always lacked a true PG because that is the best way to build around Lebron. Lebron has always been the true point on his team

I would only do a straight up trade. & even try to get a draft pick. Cavs will risk losing him & getting nothing in return & Conley is the best pg for LBJ. I wouldn't trade Marc. He's still got a good 6 years in him & having a true #1 scorer in Irving would allow him more freedom to play his inside outside game.

(07-23-2017 04:19 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote: [ -> ]I would only do a straight up trade. & even try to get a draft pick. Cavs will risk losing him & getting nothing in return & Conley is the best pg for LBJ. I wouldn't trade Marc. He's still got a good 6 years in him & having a true #1 scorer in Irving would allow him more freedom to play his inside outside game.

The Cavs wouldnt do that. Lebron may leave next season and then they would be without Kyrie, Lebron and a future 1st round pick.

And I doubt think a 32 year old center has 6 good years left. Maybe 3.

(07-23-2017 09:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Marc is 32 and has maybe two more years of productivity.

Love is 28 and being played out of position. Guy can grab 10 rebounds in a game in his sleep. Marc averaged less than 7 last year and both scored 19 ppg.

Because Marc depends on his elite athleticism to be productive?

How many above average defensive centers in the league shoot 39% from 3, score 20ppg, and are elite passers?

marc isn't an alpha dog but he is way f**king better than Kevin Love. I saw him stuff stats for 7 years or whatever in Minnesota. It doesn't win games.

(07-23-2017 09:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Marc is 32 and has maybe two more years of productivity.

Love is 28 and being played out of position. Guy can grab 10 rebounds in a game in his sleep. Marc averaged less than 7 last year and both scored 19 ppg.

And this is why stats sometimes fail. Marc does so much more than Love.

(07-23-2017 10:43 PM)memtigbb Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2017 09:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Marc is 32 and has maybe two more years of productivity.

Love is 28 and being played out of position. Guy can grab 10 rebounds in a game in his sleep. Marc averaged less than 7 last year and both scored 19 ppg.

And this is why stats sometimes fail. Marc does so much more than Love.

No doubt. We run our offense through Marc. Love stands in the corner hoping for an open three point shot. Marc is the leader of the defense, calling out assignments. Love has been criticized for years, especially in Minnesota, for laying off his defender to pad his rebounding stats, and obviously is know as a poor defender.

Even the stats Saluki posts are misleading. E.g., Marc has double the assists Love has, triple the blocks shots . . .

(07-24-2017 09:06 AM)Tigx Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2017 10:43 PM)memtigbb Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2017 09:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Marc is 32 and has maybe two more years of productivity.

Love is 28 and being played out of position. Guy can grab 10 rebounds in a game in his sleep. Marc averaged less than 7 last year and both scored 19 ppg.

And this is why stats sometimes fail. Marc does so much more than Love.

No doubt. We run our offense through Marc. Love stands in the corner hoping for an open three point shot. Marc is the leader of the defense, calling out assignments. Love has been criticized for years, especially in Minnesota, for laying off his defender to pad his rebounding stats, and obviously is know as a poor defender.

Even the stats Saluki posts are misleading. E.g., Marc has double the assists Love has, triple the blocks shots . . .

You are comparing guys at different positions. The NBA of running a "point center" is a fools errand. Irving is soooo much better than Conley and much better value the next two seasons. He and Love would be a great fit with Parsons and that would allow the Grizz a lot more freedom with the rest of the roster.

Marc is a big guy and at 32 years old and big guys decline pretty quickly at that age.

His post all-star break numbers this past year dropped from 20ppg (pre) to 16.4 ppg on 43% fg shooting.

Shaq's last season with 20ppg was at age 32. His last double digit rebounding season was at 32. Tim Duncan's last double digit rebounding was at age 33.

Olajuwon and Ewing both saw big productivity dropoffs at age 34.

Point being, historically, big guys like Marc are good to at best 34 years old. Mark is 32 now, and likely has two more productive seasons left.

Unless we are expecting a big run the next two seasons, it would be wise to get value out of him now. Maybe Love isn't the answer but holding onto Marc IF there is an offer that works is shortsighted.

Saluki, a few posts ago you said Love played out of position. Love played PF last year, Tristan was the Cavs center. Now, in the last post, you say you can't compare Marc and Love because they play different positions.

You just value Love way more than people on this board, or around the league, do. Your opinion, no problem. To me, he is a prime example of empty stats.

With Marc, you take the huge jump of saying his production will start to decline - which is not going out on a huge limb - to stating a couple of times that he "likely has two more productive seasons left" - which is just dumb, IMO.

And there is not real evidence big men decline "pretty quickly" at age 32.

Your example of Hakeem:

Age 33 year - 26.9 & 10.9.
34 year - 23.2 & 9.2
35 year - 16.4 & 9.8
36 year - 18.9 & 9.6

Ewing:

Age 33 year - 22.5 & 10.6
34 year - 22.4 & 10.7
35 year - 20.8 & 10.2
36 year - 17.3 & 9.9.

Marc won't turn 35 until half-way through the last year of his contract.

(07-24-2017 10:52 AM)Tigx Wrote: [ -> ]And there is not real evidence big men decline "pretty quickly" at age 32.

Your example of Hakeem:

Age 33 year - 26.9 & 10.9.
34 year - 23.2 & 9.2
35 year - 16.4 & 9.8
36 year - 18.9 & 9.6

Ewing:

Age 33 year - 22.5 & 10.6
34 year - 22.4 & 10.7
35 year - 20.8 & 10.2
36 year - 17.3 & 9.9.

Marc won't turn 35 until half-way through the last year of his contract.

Ummm:

(07-24-2017 10:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Shaq's last season with 20ppg was at age 32. His last double digit rebounding season was at 32. Tim Duncan's last double digit rebounding was at age 33.

Olajuwon and Ewing both saw big productivity dropoffs at age 34.

Ewing played 28 games in year 35. Then 38 games the next year.

Olajuwon played 47 games in year 35. Then 50 in the strike-shortened year, then 44, then 58.

Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both hit the skids at 32.

Ok Saluki, Ewing averaged 15 and 10 his age 37 year when he started 62 games. Happy now? I can play this silly basketball-reference.com game with you all day. I think we can all agree that the way NBA teams view rehab and rest and sleep and nutrition will allow players to be more productive later into their careers, right?

Love only played 60 games last year, did you note that? You have this way of picking and choosing data.

Bottom line, Marc will only be 34 when the last season of his contract starts. Knock on wood, he seems to have come all the way back from his navicular break. I am very confident he will be very productive for the rest of his current contract. Which is all that really matters, right?

(07-24-2017 11:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both hit the skids at 32.

OMG. Elton Brand and Boozer - you are really grasping now. Admit defeat and leave the playing field.

(07-24-2017 11:19 AM)Tigx Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2017 11:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both hit the skids at 32.

OMG. Elton Brand and Boozer - you are really grasping now. Admit defeat and leave the playing field.

Huh? Just example of big men having a decline.

Fact:

All players decline as the get older. Bigger players decline faster as they age.

If you want to believe that a 7 foot 260 pound guy will defy the odds and remain a 18-20 ppg guy over the next three years, then cool.

i'm just looking at the opportunity of improving by moving a (statistically) soon to be unproductive player who is still at a high value now.

It has been understood for years by NBA front offices that small, quick guards - like Mike - age more poorly than other position groups. Once they lose that quickness, like Tony Parker did, their game declines rapidly.

Your big man theory is just that, your theory.

Again, all that matters for this conversation is that Marc will only be 34 when he starts the last year of his contract. Unless he snaps an achilles or re-breaks his foot, it is very probable that he performs very well for the remainder of his contract. Yet still you cling to this silly "soon to be unproductive player" theory about Marc.

And you are also wrong that Marc has high trade value. When Paul George and Jimmy Butler - younger players at a position of need in today's NBA - get such a middling trade return, why would you think Marc gets a good return? Any trade involving Marc would get a fraction of what his value is to the Grizz. This is our team for the next 2+ years, it's what happens when the FO has 3 max players who are less than half way through their max contracts.