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http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/a...index.html

Rep. Scalise shot.

Hope for a quick recovery for all. Not much known yet about the shooter or motive.
NPR this morning said the shooter was in custody.
(06-14-2017 09:24 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]NPR this morning said the shooter was in custody.

There was one reported he had died, but no confirmation of that.

Last report I heard was 5 injured including the shooter.
In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.
(06-14-2017 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.

It's still a little early to be drawing conclusions. What I read is that a man asked a Congressman in the parking lot if these were the Republicans or the Democrats, and three minutes later the shooting started. Unclear if the shooter was the man asking.
(06-14-2017 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.

It's still a little early to be drawing conclusions. What I read is that a man asked a Congressman in the parking lot if these were the Republicans or the Democrats, and three minutes later the shooting started. Unclear if the shooter was the man asking.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/gop-rep-steve...by-gunman/

I read this vein on more than this one source as well.
(06-14-2017 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.

It's still a little early to be drawing conclusions. What I read is that a man asked a Congressman in the parking lot if these were the Republicans or the Democrats, and three minutes later the shooting started. Unclear if the shooter was the man asking.

The gunman was a Bernie Sanders supporter/campaign volunteer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/201...637d0b8abd
(06-14-2017 10:18 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.

It's still a little early to be drawing conclusions. What I read is that a man asked a Congressman in the parking lot if these were the Republicans or the Democrats, and three minutes later the shooting started. Unclear if the shooter was the man asking.

The gunman was a Bernie Sanders supporter/campaign volunteer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/201...637d0b8abd

Would not be shocked to find that he has some significant mental health issue, similar to the guy who shot Giffords.

Politics + actual crazy + guns = bad news.
(06-14-2017 10:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 10:18 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]In another place, I mentioned that last night a friend and myself were commenting on how the toxicity of politics has been rapidly moving in worse direction over the last 25 years. Sad timing.

In that conversation he mentioned, and I agree, the last clear shot of consensus or working together was probably Clinton/Gingrich. And we were both very worried about the price political polarization was exacting on non-politicians. Kind of weird and eerie to wake up to what might shape up to be a very unique and distinct act of targeted political violence like this.

Reports I read said the shooter was in custody, and that he had distinctly asked the group what party they were with prior to walking away then returning armed and firing.

It's still a little early to be drawing conclusions. What I read is that a man asked a Congressman in the parking lot if these were the Republicans or the Democrats, and three minutes later the shooting started. Unclear if the shooter was the man asking.

The gunman was a Bernie Sanders supporter/campaign volunteer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/201...637d0b8abd

Would not be shocked to find that he has some significant mental health issue, similar to the guy who shot Giffords.

Politics + actual crazy + guns = bad news.

Reports now that he has died.
Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.
Sanders' statement:

"I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign. I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values.

My hopes and prayers are that Representative Scalise, congressional staff and the Capitol Police Officers who were wounded make a quick and full recovery. I also want to thank the Capitol Police for their heroic actions to prevent further harm."
(06-14-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.

And hopefully no one on the opposite side of the fence will blame anything on the left side as generically fostering those actions from what seem a profoundly disturbed individual. (emphasis on the term 'individual')
(06-14-2017 12:54 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.

And hopefully no one on the opposite side of the fence will blame anything on the left side as generically fostering those actions from what seem a profoundly disturbed individual. (emphasis on the term 'individual')

Sorry, Tanq, i just cannot let you shut down any discussion of why this happened. I remember only too well the week or so of hysteria over how "hate speech" caused the Giffords shooting.

This man had a Facebook post calling Trump a traitor. I wonder where he got that idea from.

CNN is publishing some of his posts. I do not see him as coming by these ideas independently.

It is nice that all the members of congress met to offer their prayers, and to condemn the violence. I hope that spirit of collegiality continues for a while, but I do not expect it to last long. Call me PessimisticOwl.
(06-14-2017 01:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 12:54 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.

And hopefully no one on the opposite side of the fence will blame anything on the left side as generically fostering those actions from what seem a profoundly disturbed individual. (emphasis on the term 'individual')

Sorry, Tanq, i just cannot let you shut down any discussion of why this happened. I remember only too well the week or so of hysteria over how "hate speech" caused the Giffords shooting.

This man had a Facebook post calling Trump a traitor. I wonder where he got that idea from.

CNN is publishing some of his posts. I do not see him as coming by these ideas independently.

It is nice that all the members of congress met to offer their prayers, and to condemn the violence. I hope that spirit of collegiality continues for a while, but I do not expect it to last long. Call me PessimisticOwl.

"An optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist knows it is."

San Francisco UPS:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/san-fra...index.html
(06-14-2017 01:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 12:54 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.

And hopefully no one on the opposite side of the fence will blame anything on the left side as generically fostering those actions from what seem a profoundly disturbed individual. (emphasis on the term 'individual')

Sorry, Tanq, i just cannot let you shut down any discussion of why this happened. I remember only too well the week or so of hysteria over how "hate speech" caused the Giffords shooting.

This man had a Facebook post calling Trump a traitor. I wonder where he got that idea from.

CNN is publishing some of his posts. I do not see him as coming by these ideas independently.

It is nice that all the members of congress met to offer their prayers, and to condemn the violence. I hope that spirit of collegiality continues for a while, but I do not expect it to last long. Call me PessimisticOwl.

I think it is a long, long leap from calling Trump a traitor to hearing a call for violence.

If the case were that "calling the opposite side traitors" were such calls to violence, or, even something that materially added to the environment that escalated violence, then the people who called out the Giffords issue were spot on.

I would hate to see the Republicans/conservative/libertarians take that type of immediate flying leap that the progressive/Democrats did over the Giffords shooting relating to politically inspired hate speech, especially since nothing is really known about the mental state of the shooter at present.
(06-14-2017 03:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 01:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 12:54 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Needless to say, if this does turn out to be someone who targeted Republican congressman specifically for political reasons, I (and hopefully everyone else from the center to the left of the spectrum) condemn it unequivocally.

And hopefully no one on the opposite side of the fence will blame anything on the left side as generically fostering those actions from what seem a profoundly disturbed individual. (emphasis on the term 'individual')

Sorry, Tanq, i just cannot let you shut down any discussion of why this happened. I remember only too well the week or so of hysteria over how "hate speech" caused the Giffords shooting.

This man had a Facebook post calling Trump a traitor. I wonder where he got that idea from.

CNN is publishing some of his posts. I do not see him as coming by these ideas independently.

It is nice that all the members of congress met to offer their prayers, and to condemn the violence. I hope that spirit of collegiality continues for a while, but I do not expect it to last long. Call me PessimisticOwl.

I think it is a long, long leap from calling Trump a traitor to hearing a call for violence.

If the case were that "calling the opposite side traitors" were such calls to violence, or, even something that materially added to the environment that escalated violence, then the people who called out the Giffords issue were spot on.

I would hate to see the Republicans/conservative/libertarians take that type of immediate flying leap that the progressive/Democrats did over the Giffords shooting relating to politically inspired hate speech, especially since nothing is really known about the mental state of the shooter at present.

yeah, a long leap for most of us, but apparently a short one for this individual.

I just watched the managers of the respective baseball teams talk. It was expressed that maybe civility among the leaders could spread to civility among the people. Looks like both sides are promising to be more civil. Why do that if they already were civil.

The drumbeat since November 8 has been "collusion" and "impeachment" and "liars" and "treason" and "traitor" and illegal this and illegal that. I have wondered when and how this was going to break out into violence. Just glad it isn't worse.

Just yesterday, Ivanka talked about being surprised at the level of "viciousness" she has encountered. Just yesterday, Jeff Sessions was impugned as having distasteful Russian contacts he lied about and shady legal ethics. This site generally has a pretty high level of civility and common sense, but believe me, there are others with a much higher level of hatred, and it is not surprising that it finally broke through to an individual who was either mentally ill or saw himself as a savior of the good and correct way of doing things.
There was a pretty moving segment on the News Hour with Barton and his Dem counterpart. I am not a Joe Barton fan politically, but man I felt for him as a human being. He was there with his two sons.

I'd like to think Congress is serious about improving the tone, but its going to take a lot.

I don't want to get into a scorekeeping argument with OO about heated rhetoric, but I'll just point out that Hillary was repeatedly called a traitor during the campaign. I heard numerous calls for her to be "put before a firing squad" or "hanging from a rope". Not to mention multiple chants of "lock her up!" at the Republican convention. And then Ted Nugent who made a comment alluding to raping her with his shotgun. And then was invited to the White House. I'm not aware of any Democratic Senate candidates talking about "Second Amendment solutions" or Democratic Presidential candidates who said if their opponent won "the second amendment people could take care of her". Etc.

I could go on and on.

Things have become too tribal. Republicans and Democrats have become identities in a way they didn't used to be. Not sure how we dial that back...
(06-16-2017 07:34 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ]There was a pretty moving segment on the News Hour with Barton and his Dem counterpart. I am not a Joe Barton fan politically, but man I felt for him as a human being. He was there with his two sons.

I'd like to think Congress is serious about improving the tone, but its going to take a lot.

I don't want to get into a scorekeeping argument with OO about heated rhetoric, but I'll just point out that Hillary was repeatedly called a traitor during the campaign. I heard numerous calls for her to be "put before a firing squad" or "hanging from a rope". Not to mention multiple chants of "lock her up!" at the Republican convention. And then Ted Nugent who made a comment alluding to raping her with his shotgun. And then was invited to the White House. I'm not aware of any Democratic Senate candidates talking about "Second Amendment solutions" or Democratic Presidential candidates who said if their opponent won "the second amendment people could take care of her". Etc.

I could go on and on.

Things have become too tribal. Republicans and Democrats have become identities in a way they didn't used to be. Not sure how we dial that back...

I think it starts at the top of government and works its way down.
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