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It looks like that "incredible" finish last year set the Reds up beautifully for this year's draft.

Quote:MLB draft: Dual-threat prospects raise Reds’ chances of hitting another jackpot
Marcus Hartman
1:03 p.m Monday, May 1, 2017 Sports

If MLB.com is to be believed, the Cincinnati Reds are sitting pretty at No. 2 in the next month's MLB draft.

That's because after hitting what looks early like a home run in Nick Senzel at No. 2 last year, the top two candidates this year both have multiple paths to success in the big leagues.

The No. 1 prospect is Hunter Greene, a high school pitcher in California who was on the cover of Sports Illustrated last week.

If Greene’s reported 102-MPH fastball can’t be harnessed, he could still work out as a shortstop.

Should the Minnesota Twins take Greene with the No. 1 overall pick, another dual-threat prospect being projected to go early is Brendan McKay, a left-handed pitcher and first baseman at Louisville.

And if Minnesota passes on both to save money later in the draft, well, that would give the Reds a nice dilemma, wouldn’t it?

A team can never have enough pitching, but their system was badly in need in of a premium bat until Senzel arrived from Tennessee.

Now there should be no second thoughts about taking the best player available -- especially if that player has two different paths to the major leagues.
Saw McKay when UL played here. Dude is strong and has crazy quick hands. He compressed one ball to the RF wall that may not have exceeded 8 feet in height. Got there quickly.
I'd prefer the Reds get McKay. It sounds like Hunter Greene's people have been trying to flim flam their way to somehow get drafted by SD at #3 since he's from that area. If Cincinnati selected Greene, I wonder if it would be difficult to sign him.
I'd stay away from HS pitchers from a warm weather region.

What region of the county had the most big league pitchers (where they were born not where they went to college)? Not what you'd think...The NE and New England states has a higher density and it is increasing with time. Why? Throwing year round is blowing out elbows at record rates. This is the 1st generation to have a lot of players in the pro systems who grew up playing year round and the elbow epidemic is hitting hard.

You live in SoCal or down south, you are likely playing baseball year round...arms, especially pitchers who play SS too, need significant offseason down time to repair and to grow. Those HS arms only have so many throws in them before going off to see Dr. Andrews' gang.
(05-02-2017 08:24 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: [ -> ]I'd prefer the Reds get McKay. It sounds like Hunter Greene's people have been trying to flim flam their way to somehow get drafted by SD at #3 since he's from that area. If Cincinnati selected Greene, I wonder if it would be difficult to sign him.

I saw one report on that, but I'm not sure how true it is or how much leverage they really have. I do know that they've already shut him down for the year in terms of pitching. I've also read that the Reds specifically are ready to call their bluff on this if he lasts to #2. Of course, Green doesn't have to sign if the Reds draft him, but he'd still have a lot of hurdles and risk to get through if he was adamant about only going to SD (starting with waiting a year to the next draft).
(05-02-2017 09:12 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd stay away from HS pitchers from a warm weather region.

What region of the county had the most big league pitchers (where they were born not where they went to college)? Not what you'd think...The NE and New England states has a higher density and it is increasing with time. Why? Throwing year round is blowing out elbows at record rates. This is the 1st generation to have a lot of players in the pro systems who grew up playing year round and the elbow epidemic is hitting hard.

You live in SoCal or down south, you are likely playing baseball year round...arms, especially pitchers who play SS too, need significant offseason down time to repair and to grow. Those HS arms only have so many throws in them before going off to see Dr. Andrews' gang.

Everybody prospect has their story about how they are different (or in the alternative, the same as somebody who actually made it). But Greene really sounds like a different cat and it sounds like his arm has been pampered towards the sole purpose of pitching more than Kobe cows are pampered for the sole purpose of making perfect steak.

BTW, Greene is this week's SI cover story and it's definitely worth a read:

Hunter Greene is the star baseball needs. First he has to finish high school.


[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=12268&d=1493644810]

Quote: Greene began playing in spikes on 90-foot bases when he was seven. The Dodgers’ area scout met him during a pitching lesson when he was nine, deeming his throwing mechanics flawless. Radar guns clocked him at 93 mph when he was 14...
Unless he is bionic, that kid is going to have arm problems early in his career.

90 foot basses and pitching from 60'6" since he was seven along with year round games? Dad must be a nut job but I digress...Everyone has a timer in their pitching elbow and shoulder...even with good mechanics it's mostly a question of how quickly you burn through the time on the front end.
(05-02-2017 11:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless he is bionic, that kid is going to have arm problems early in his career.

90 foot basses and pitching from 60'6" since he was seven along with year round games? Dad must be a nut job but I digress...Everyone has a timer in their pitching elbow and shoulder...even with good mechanics it's mostly a question of how quickly you burn through the time on the front end.

I'd never discount the possibility of a pitcher getting injured and the risk is magnified greatly when you are talking about taking a HS pitcher first overall. But it sounds like this kid has taken more precautions than just about any other pitching prospect (unless you count "avoiding pitching" as good prep for a pitcher). Plus he's a good enough hitter and fielder that he'd be a 1st rounder as a SS even if he didn't pitch according to all the reports I've read. That's a heckuva backup plan if his pitching arm goes kaput even if it was bad enough that you ultimately had to trade him to an AL team to DH.

Quote:. Upon completing second grade, he applied for Alan Jaeger’s weeklong summer camp at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, typically populated by high school pitchers. Jaeger, a sensei for many of L.A.’s most promising young hurlers, oversees four-hour sessions in which 3 1⁄2 hours are devoted to stretches, yoga poses, breathing exercises and band work. “We only throw for 30 minutes,” Jaeger explains. “It’s not for a seven-year-old.” He accepted Hunter, on one condition. He’d refund Russell’s money after the boy inevitably lost interest the first day. “That never happened,” Jaeger laughs. “Hunter was so unusual. Even then, he had this deep connection with his body and his breath. He listened to his arm.”

...There are concerns over travel ball in warm-weather locales—burnout and overuse top the list—and many fears are well-founded. But Greene strove to be a specialized counterpoint, logging an estimated 70 games a year, and preparing his arm for each one with Jaeger’s prescribed regimen of band work and long toss. “You’re never totally comfortable drafting a high-schooler first,” says a major league scouting director. “But you’re more comfortable with this one because of how long and how carefully he’s tracked toward it.”

Since you brought him up, per the article, Dad is a private eye with quite a few celeb clients who has turned down requests from NBC and CBS to do a reality show. Take that fwiw, but based upon Hunter's hobbies (violin and painting) along with the experiences he endured with his sister's health, etc. he sounds incredibly grounded.
(05-02-2017 09:12 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd stay away from HS pitchers from a warm weather region.

What region of the county had the most big league pitchers (where they were born not where they went to college)? Not what you'd think...The NE and New England states has a higher density and it is increasing with time. Why? Throwing year round is blowing out elbows at record rates. This is the 1st generation to have a lot of players in the pro systems who grew up playing year round and the elbow epidemic is hitting hard.

You live in SoCal or down south, you are likely playing baseball year round...arms, especially pitchers who play SS too, need significant offseason down time to repair and to grow. Those HS arms only have so many throws in them before going off to see Dr. Andrews' gang.

Top Notch and spot on from my experience.
Probably too much info here from me but it's an interesting topic for general discussion IMO...70 games a year doesn't say much....is that total combined year round or the games he pitched? Yes, there are knucklehead dads and coaches who throw kids that much year round.

Between high school (@ March through early May) and summer ball (@ mid May through the end of July) combined lots of kids max out between 50 and 75 games a year. Even top line youth pitchers may only throw in 20 or so of those games total with bullpens scheduled in between. And they are rarely also grinding out the other 50 games as a left side infielder.

Not just the long term wear and tear, but it's the no rest in the fall and winter that get players either accutely in their teens or chronically by the time they reach their early 20's. Not just tears which everyone has feared for years...but the new big diagnosis freaking out orthos in this generation is the second degree sprains/strains where the ligaments are not torn but stretch out from long term repetitive use and need to be repaired from elongation via surgery. See a couple of the reds youngsters right now.

Bands and stretching regimens are commonplace for about any competitive youth pitcher ovwr the age of 14 nowadays. There are lots of gurus out there....and many of their own guys end up with zipper scars on the inside of that throwing elbow. Non pitchers, too.
(05-02-2017 12:15 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-02-2017 11:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless he is bionic, that kid is going to have arm problems early in his career.

90 foot basses and pitching from 60'6" since he was seven along with year round games? Dad must be a nut job but I digress...Everyone has a timer in their pitching elbow and shoulder...even with good mechanics it's mostly a question of how quickly you burn through the time on the front end.

I'd never discount the possibility of a pitcher getting injured and the risk is magnified greatly when you are talking about taking a HS pitcher first overall. But it sounds like this kid has taken more precautions than just about any other pitching prospect (unless you count "avoiding pitching" as good prep for a pitcher). Plus he's a good enough hitter and fielder that he'd be a 1st rounder as a SS even if he didn't pitch according to all the reports I've read. That's a heckuva backup plan if his pitching arm goes kaput even if it was bad enough that you ultimately had to trade him to an AL team to DH.

Quote:. Upon completing second grade, he applied for Alan Jaeger’s weeklong summer camp at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, typically populated by high school pitchers. Jaeger, a sensei for many of L.A.’s most promising young hurlers, oversees four-hour sessions in which 3 1⁄2 hours are devoted to stretches, yoga poses, breathing exercises and band work. “We only throw for 30 minutes,” Jaeger explains. “It’s not for a seven-year-old.” He accepted Hunter, on one condition. He’d refund Russell’s money after the boy inevitably lost interest the first day. “That never happened,” Jaeger laughs. “Hunter was so unusual. Even then, he had this deep connection with his body and his breath. He listened to his arm.”

...There are concerns over travel ball in warm-weather locales—burnout and overuse top the list—and many fears are well-founded. But Greene strove to be a specialized counterpoint, logging an estimated 70 games a year, and preparing his arm for each one with Jaeger’s prescribed regimen of band work and long toss. “You’re never totally comfortable drafting a high-schooler first,” says a major league scouting director. “But you’re more comfortable with this one because of how long and how carefully he’s tracked toward it.”

Since you brought him up, per the article, Dad is a private eye with quite a few celeb clients who has turned down requests from NBC and CBS to do a reality show. Take that fwiw, but based upon Hunter's hobbies (violin and painting) along with the experiences he endured with his sister's health, etc. he sounds incredibly grounded.

that was pretty illuminating. i had no idea there were baseball mystics. i'm sold
(05-02-2017 11:08 PM)Lush Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-02-2017 12:15 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-02-2017 11:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless he is bionic, that kid is going to have arm problems early in his career.

90 foot basses and pitching from 60'6" since he was seven along with year round games? Dad must be a nut job but I digress...Everyone has a timer in their pitching elbow and shoulder...even with good mechanics it's mostly a question of how quickly you burn through the time on the front end.

I'd never discount the possibility of a pitcher getting injured and the risk is magnified greatly when you are talking about taking a HS pitcher first overall. But it sounds like this kid has taken more precautions than just about any other pitching prospect (unless you count "avoiding pitching" as good prep for a pitcher). Plus he's a good enough hitter and fielder that he'd be a 1st rounder as a SS even if he didn't pitch according to all the reports I've read. That's a heckuva backup plan if his pitching arm goes kaput even if it was bad enough that you ultimately had to trade him to an AL team to DH.

Quote:. Upon completing second grade, he applied for Alan Jaeger’s weeklong summer camp at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, typically populated by high school pitchers. Jaeger, a sensei for many of L.A.’s most promising young hurlers, oversees four-hour sessions in which 3 1⁄2 hours are devoted to stretches, yoga poses, breathing exercises and band work. “We only throw for 30 minutes,” Jaeger explains. “It’s not for a seven-year-old.” He accepted Hunter, on one condition. He’d refund Russell’s money after the boy inevitably lost interest the first day. “That never happened,” Jaeger laughs. “Hunter was so unusual. Even then, he had this deep connection with his body and his breath. He listened to his arm.”

...There are concerns over travel ball in warm-weather locales—burnout and overuse top the list—and many fears are well-founded. But Greene strove to be a specialized counterpoint, logging an estimated 70 games a year, and preparing his arm for each one with Jaeger’s prescribed regimen of band work and long toss. “You’re never totally comfortable drafting a high-schooler first,” says a major league scouting director. “But you’re more comfortable with this one because of how long and how carefully he’s tracked toward it.”

Since you brought him up, per the article, Dad is a private eye with quite a few celeb clients who has turned down requests from NBC and CBS to do a reality show. Take that fwiw, but based upon Hunter's hobbies (violin and painting) along with the experiences he endured with his sister's health, etc. he sounds incredibly grounded.

that was pretty illuminating. i had no idea there were baseball mystics. i'm sold

The mystics come in waves and each group of acolytes swear this is the answer.

The Church of the Inverted W was the path to mystical pitching enlightenment for years until guys like Stephen Strausberg and Jaba Chamberlain started going down with UCL injuries. There are now teams of sensei out there performing cult reprogramming.
you think that noise be jabberwocky?
General consensus right now seems to be that McKay and Greene have separated themselves as the top 2, although Wright has been dominating lately and might be making it a top 3 who have separated themselves.

Keith Law's 1.0 mock is out for ESPN insider. His first four: 1. McKay 2. Greene to the Reds 3. Royce Lewis 4. Kyle Wright

Quote:...There are really just two candidates to go first overall at this point, excluding some rumored way-under-slot names such as Pavin Smith. Brendan McKay is a true two-way talent from Louisville who could go out at first base or as a left-handed starter. Hunter Greene is also a two-way player, but his future is almost certainly on the mound, and he has a ceiling for the ages. If McKay doesn’t go first, he goes second. If Greene doesn’t go second (or first), he goes third....

Reds are also supposedly a legitimate contender to sign Cuban phenom Luis Robert. Getting him might ultimately dwarf whoever they end up getting in the draft.
Greene it is. I'm pumped!
(05-02-2017 11:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless he is bionic, that kid is going to have arm problems early in his career.

90 foot basses and pitching from 60'6" since he was seven along with year round games? Dad must be a nut job but I digress...Everyone has a timer in their pitching elbow and shoulder...even with good mechanics it's mostly a question of how quickly you burn through the time on the front end.

Yeah that is a LOT of throwing hard from distance. There are consequences from that much hard repetition on a body that is still developing. My left arm is nearly a full inch longer than my right.

There are a lot of theories regarding care, training, conditioning, repetitions and arm expiration dates. This kid's development story is so unusual - he kind of tests them all like a one man research experiment.

His videos and numbers are amazing he may turn out to be a phenom. But is it just me or is there is a bit of a "Sid Finch" scent to this story?
The notorious case of Sid Finch! Forgot about that.

When I first started reading about Greene's dad pushing him that early the first thing I thought of was the SI articles on HS QB phenom Todd Marinovich and his dad in the mid 80's.
Quote:Reds got a haul and Hunter Greene will too
By Jon Heyman
Posted on Jun 15, 2017

One rival executive didn’t mince words. “Cincinnati won the draft by far,” that executive said.

Not only is No. 2 overall pick Hunter Greene a potential All-Star, so are the Reds’ second and third picks – prep shortstop Jeter Downs and Wake Forest outfielder Stuart Fairchild, that exec asserted.

That executive went on to cite “bad scouting by other organizations” as reasons for the Reds’ haul. He said stars just kept falling into the Reds’ lap.

“Sometimes it just falls that way,” he said.

Hunter Greene, the No. 2 overall pick, is a very respectful young man. Good for him showing up at MLB Network for the draft.

“Wouldn’t miss it for the world,” he said...
I don't see the Marinovich comparison. That kid's life was molded around one thing: Dad turning him into robo-QB. Greene's dad is a P.I., but it sounds like even a novice could see his kid was a prodigy at an early age. I read it as he took an active role in making sure his kid was well rounded and grounded and that his arm would be nurtured and protected by the best modern experts available.

Quote:Greene Has a Wide Variety of Interests

Greene is anything but your typical high-schooler, baseball skills aside. He plays the violin, and listens to hip-hip, according to Sports Illustrated.

Greene is learning how to speak Korean and does yoga with a private instructor three times a week. He spends free periods painting with Joseph Lee, his AP studio art teacher, and also likes to fish at Castaic Lake, according to SI.

He organized a sock drive this winter for the homeless in downtown Los Angeles, where he handed out 2,300 pairs on Skid Row. He has received four certificates of recognition from L.A.-area politicians for his community service efforts.

According to SI, he started wearing Jackie Robinson’s number 42 at a young age, and won an essay contest when he was 13-years-old. His win granted him a meeting with Robinson’s daughter, Sharon.
I'm sure he is a great kid but there is a long laundry list of guys in this sport who have been pushed by dad and pressured since they were in the second grade to be hall of famers and who get the huge signing bonus and go off he rails for one reason or the other. Time will tell. I hope he makes it.
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