http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/st...osse/48791
The A10 seems primed to start a new sport. With St Joe's, UMASS and Richmond all in different affiliations, the A10 could add lax affiliations Detroit and Cleveland St or NJIT. Why have not more A10 schools like Hofstra or URI or even St Louis, Davidson, George Mason, or George Washington started the sport?
http://www.gmu.edu/org/lacrosse/
Division II Preseason Top 25
1. Binghamton
2. Ithaca
3. RIT
4. UMBC
5. RPI
6.
ST. JOSEPH'S
7. Albany Pharmacy
8. Slippery Rock
9. Temple
10.
GEORGE MASON
11. VMI
12. West Chester
13. PSU-Altoona
14. Christopher Newport
15. Bowling Green
16. Tennessee-Chattanooga-UTC
17.
RICHMOND
18. Bloomsburg
19. Lock Haven
20. Stevens Tech
21. York
22. Susquehanna
23. Penn College
24. Brockport
25. Kutztown
(03-23-2017 10:11 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.gmu.edu/org/lacrosse/
Division II Preseason Top 25
1. Binghamton
2. Ithaca
3. RIT
4. UMBC
5. RPI
6. ST. JOSEPH'S
7. Albany Pharmacy
8. Slippery Rock
9. Temple
10. GEORGE MASON
11. VMI
12. West Chester
13. PSU-Altoona
14. Christopher Newport
15. Bowling Green
16. Tennessee-Chattanooga-UTC
17. RICHMOND
18. Bloomsburg
19. Lock Haven
20. Stevens Tech
21. York
22. Susquehanna
23. Penn College
24. Brockport
25. Kutztown
Those are club rankings at the DII level.
I wonder if the Big East would give them a look. The geography works, never hurts to have a flag in upstate NY when it comes to lacrosse, and they're at the minimum for members right now. Otherwise, yea, it seems like the A10 could probably grab two or three affiliate members and start sponsoring the sport themselves.
This would knock the CAA down to 5 - will this mean Hampton finally gets a spot? I guess the other alternative would be for Detroit Mercy to leave the MAAC and join Cleveland State in the A-10. NJIT can then join the CAA.
(03-23-2017 09:43 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Why have not more A10 schools like Hofstra or URI or even St Louis, Davidson, George Mason, or George Washington started the sport?
Hofstra plays lacrosse; They are full members of the CAA.
I could see SJU and Richmond be willing to start up A10 lacrosse but I doubt UMass would voluntarily leave the CAA. The CAA is a good lacrosse conference. Even if they lost a school, they likely could find a better/established school than NJIT to fill the spot.
St Bonnie has said this sport at least will break even for the school, which leads me to believe that the sport was added to increase enrollment. On a lax board, there have been posts that St Bonaventure has gone really cheap in its support of their women's lax team. The school has less than 1800 undergrads, not much endowment, and is not in a metro area. This looks like a low scholarship football option with less equipment and fewer coaches. Reminiscent of lax moves by Furman, Mercer, High Point, Bellarmine, Jacksonville etc to increase enrollment, not to become a power. They just added M &W track, and are emphasizing the enrollment adds with those sports too.
Just pointing out that Mason does play lacrosse.
(03-23-2017 10:52 PM)trephin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 09:43 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Why have not more A10 schools like Hofstra or URI or even St Louis, Davidson, George Mason, or George Washington started the sport?
Hofstra plays lacrosse; They are full members of the CAA.
I could see SJU and Richmond willing to start up A10 lacrosse but I doubt UMass would voluntarily leave the CAA. The CAA is a good lacrosse conference. Even if they lost a school, they likely could find a better/established school than NJIT to fill the spot.
Sorry. Guess I confused Fordham's conference affiliation with Hofstra's
(03-23-2017 10:52 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]St Bonnie has said this sport at least will break even for the school, which leads me to believe that the sport was added to increase enrollment. On a lax board, there have been posts that St Bonaventure has gone really cheap in its support of their women's lax team. The school has less than 1800 undergrads, not much endowment, and is not in a metro area. This looks like a low scholarship football option with less equipment and fewer coaches. Reminiscent of lax moves by Furman, Mercer, High Point, Bellarmine, Jacksonville etc to increase enrollment, not to become a power. They just added M &W track, and are emphasizing the enrollment adds with those sports too.
Enrollement? A lacrosse team only adds maybe 50 students? Even at SBU that's not much. Unless you mean trying to balance Title IX requirements?
(03-23-2017 11:00 PM)trephin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 10:52 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]St Bonnie has said this sport at least will break even for the school, which leads me to believe that the sport was added to increase enrollment. On a lax board, there have been posts that St Bonaventure has gone really cheap in its support of their women's lax team. The school has less than 1800 undergrads, not much endowment, and is not in a metro area. This looks like a low scholarship football option with less equipment and fewer coaches. Reminiscent of lax moves by Furman, Mercer, High Point, Bellarmine, Jacksonville etc to increase enrollment, not to become a power. They just added M &W track, and are emphasizing the enrollment adds with those sports too.
Enrollement? A lacrosse team only adds maybe 50 students? Even at SBU that's not much. Unless you mean trying to balance Title IX requirements?
50 students is almost 3% of enrollment. For small private schools, that can be a big deal. At public schools doesn't mean anything, except more scholarship costs and Title IX issues. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them. With less than 12 scholarships, players will have to come up with 3/4ers of the tuition from other sources. Football has a much higher startup up costs and more coaches to pay. Lax probably means $1.2 mill in extra tuition.
(03-23-2017 11:06 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]50 students is almost 3% of enrollment. For small private schools, that can be a big deal. At public schools doesn't mean anything, except more scholarship costs and Title IX issues. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them. With less than 12 scholarships, players will have to come up with 3/4ers of the tuition from other sources. Football has a much higher startup up costs and more coaches to pay. Lax probably means $1.2 mill in extra tuition.
LOL. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them? Seriously? You're claiming that as part of the "enrollment plan" of adding lacrosse? Never mind whether high school students are any more likely to attend a school because someone in their circle will play lacrosse at a school...
Scholarship limit is 12.6 for men.
I have no doubt football startup and ongoing costs are higher. Not sure what that has to do with the discussion.
SBU is one of the smallest of the small schools though. 50 would be on the high side for a roster but even so, it just seems 35-50 students per class isn't exactly something any school couldn't increase merely by accepting more students without having to startup a new sport. Are there any schools that aren't rejecting more qualified candidates than they are accepting?
(03-23-2017 11:54 PM)trephin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 11:06 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]50 students is almost 3% of enrollment. For small private schools, that can be a big deal. At public schools doesn't mean anything, except more scholarship costs and Title IX issues. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them. With less than 12 scholarships, players will have to come up with 3/4ers of the tuition from other sources. Football has a much higher startup up costs and more coaches to pay. Lax probably means $1.2 mill in extra tuition.
LOL. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them? Seriously? You're claiming that as part of the "enrollment plan" of adding lacrosse? Never mind whether high school students are any more likely to attend a school because someone in their circle will play lacrosse at a school...
Scholarship limit is 12.6 for men.
I have no doubt football startup and ongoing costs are higher. Not sure what that has to do with the discussion.
SBU is one of the smallest of the small schools though. 50 would be on the high side for a roster but even so, it just seems 35-50 students per class isn't exactly something any school couldn't increase merely by accepting more students without having to startup a new sport. Are there any schools that aren't rejecting more qualified candidates than they are accepting?
Have talked to enrollment directors. At non-Ivy type schools, they like popular jocks because they often bring friends with them with no scholarship inducements.
Continue to laugh, but Google this and you will find plenty of confirmations about lax and non-scholarship football as enrollment increasers which subsequently increase revenues. Public schools have entirely different reasons to add those sports.
(03-23-2017 11:54 PM)trephin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 11:06 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]50 students is almost 3% of enrollment. For small private schools, that can be a big deal. At public schools doesn't mean anything, except more scholarship costs and Title IX issues. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them. With less than 12 scholarships, players will have to come up with 3/4ers of the tuition from other sources. Football has a much higher startup up costs and more coaches to pay. Lax probably means $1.2 mill in extra tuition.
LOL. Lax players often take their friends and gfs with them? Seriously? You're claiming that as part of the "enrollment plan" of adding lacrosse? Never mind whether high school students are any more likely to attend a school because someone in their circle will play lacrosse at a school...
Scholarship limit is 12.6 for men.
Lacrosse is not a headcount sport, it is a FTE-count sport ... 12.6 typically translates into substantially more than 12 students. If you give two full rides, six half-rides and four quarter-rides, that's 12 "scholarship students" and 5.5 FTE. If you give no full rides, six half-rides and six quarter rides, that is 12 "scholarship students" and only 4.5 FTE.
And for a private school that has low hard-costs for new enrollments, because they are not up against academic facility or faculty workload capacity constraints, much of the scholarship cost is only a notional cost. A school that plays soccer or football in the fall has a field to play lacrosse on in the spring, so the incremental facilities cost is also often fairly low.
Wonder what the A-10 will do if they lose several members to realignment?
Davidson may not stay long in the conference if more schools depart.
Dayton is rumored to be part of the AAC.
Fordham have the money, and they could try to be the next Liberty trying to get into FBS.
George Mason would be picked up.
UMass to the AAC to help out UConn for travel in all sports.
URI could join the CAA as a full member.
Richmond could go to the Big East.
Saint Louis to the Big East.
VCU to the AAC.
If you include Davidson, the conference would be down to 6 members. A-10 could be in a world of trouble.
(03-24-2017 11:19 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder what the A-10 will do if they lose several members to realignment?
Davidson may not stay long in the conference if more schools depart.
Dayton is rumored to be part of the AAC.
Fordham have the money, and they could try to be the next Liberty trying to get into FBS.
George Mason would be picked up.
UMass to the AAC to help out UConn for travel in all sports.
URI could join the CAA as a full member.
Richmond could go to the Big East.
Saint Louis to the Big East.
VCU to the AAC.
If you include Davidson, the conference would be down to 6 members. A-10 could be in a world of trouble.
A-10's mostly fine. Dayton and VCU
aren't rumored to be joining the AAC, and if UMass had an AAC invite available, or Richmond and St Louis to the Big East, they'd already be there. I do think they wouldn't totally mind it if St Louis got picked up and they no longer had to travel out to the Midwest (quite honestly, one could make an argument that St Louis could make good use of the AQ in a newly-weakened MVC if Wichita leaves), but in general they're fairly secure in their spot as the second-tier non-football conference this side of the Mississippi (behind the BE, of course).
(03-23-2017 10:23 PM)Bogg Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if the Big East would give them a look. The geography works, never hurts to have a flag in upstate NY when it comes to lacrosse, and they're at the minimum for members right now. Otherwise, yea, it seems like the A10 could probably grab two or three affiliate members and start sponsoring the sport themselves.
St. Bona could actually become a Top 20 Lax Power...lot's of players within 6 hours.
(03-24-2017 09:48 PM)Bogg Wrote: [ -> ]A-10's mostly fine. Dayton and VCU aren't rumored to be joining the AAC, and if UMass had an AAC invite available, or Richmond and St Louis to the Big East, they'd already be there.
DavidSt. is engaging in a bit of double & triple counting, as the "rumors" about a BBall school to the AAC seem to focus on Wichita State, and the "rumor" about Dayton and VCU seem to be rather about them as alternative possibilities. Even adding UMass to the list is not accumulating losses, it is just shuffling around which A10 school might be lost in the long odds scenario that (1) the AAC expands to a balanced FB/BBall alignment and (2) it's not Wichita State that it invites to Bring Balance to the Sports.
As far as the Big East, they could indeed have already invited any of the schools in the speculation if they wanted to. There is absolutely no indication that Fox is eager to just add two more mouths to feed to the Big East, so that is not even up to the level of rumor, it's pure unfounded speculation.
(03-26-2017 09:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 10:23 PM)Bogg Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if the Big East would give them a look. The geography works, never hurts to have a flag in upstate NY when it comes to lacrosse, and they're at the minimum for members right now. Otherwise, yea, it seems like the A10 could probably grab two or three affiliate members and start sponsoring the sport themselves.
St. Bona could actually become a Top 20 Lax Power...lot's of players within 6 hours.
Why Buffalo hasn't moved on lax is baffling. Yeah, the MAC required baseball but that has since been re-lax-ed.
(03-23-2017 10:55 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 10:52 PM)trephin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2017 09:43 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Why have not more A10 schools like Hofstra or URI or even St Louis, Davidson, George Mason, or George Washington started the sport?
Hofstra plays lacrosse; They are full members of the CAA.
I could see SJU and Richmond willing to start up A10 lacrosse but I doubt UMass would voluntarily leave the CAA. The CAA is a good lacrosse conference. Even if they lost a school, they likely could find a better/established school than NJIT to fill the spot.
Sorry. Guess I confused Fordham's conference affiliation with Hofstra's
I think many A-10 fans would be willing to make that trade.