Time has run out, this program at best has stagnated, at worst, is beginning the free fall we all dread
Give Coach K credit for turning around a dreadful program from his predecessor but now it's time to move on.
Somewhere there is a Keith Dambrot out there waiting to take Toledo to the next level and to the NCAA.
Yep -- sick of watching the same old crap night in and night out.
(02-28-2017 08:59 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]Time has run out, this program at best has stagnated, at worst, is beginning the free fall we all dread
Give Coach K credit for turning around a dreadful program from his predecessor but now it's time to move on.
Somewhere there is a Keith Dambrot out there waiting to take Toledo to the next level and to the NCAA.
Great. There's a reason Dambrot has 12 straight 20 win seasons at Akron and is still there.
(02-28-2017 09:17 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 08:59 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]Time has run out, this program at best has stagnated, at worst, is beginning the free fall we all dread
Give Coach K credit for turning around a dreadful program from his predecessor but now it's time to move on.
Somewhere there is a Keith Dambrot out there waiting to take Toledo to the next level and to the NCAA.
Great. There's a reason Dambrot has 12 straight winning seasons at Akron and is still there.
He's taken a team to the NCAA. That's for sure. They never do anything in it, but they've gotten there.
My guess is Coach K stays. MOB extended his contract until 2021, I believe. The buyout is more that UT can handle.
Whether or not there's merit in the argument, TK isn't going to be fired...ever. At worst ( for him), his contract will eventually not be renewed (which isn't the same as being fired). I can say that confidently for 2 reasons:
1) Because our AD had a habit of becoming enamored with coaches and giving them extensions on top of extensions, we can't afford to buy-out TK. We can't even afford to pay for/bond even half of the master plan proposal, so there's no UT money to buy a coach out...and I doubt that there's a deep pockets booster out there who's depressed enough at our irrelevancy to spend his/her money.
2) Firing TK means our AD would have to do a real coaching search, something recent history shows he isn't keen on. He moved Campbell up, he moved Candle up, he recruited TK from Green Bay, and he didn't look too far past Tricia Cullop. I think he'd rather see the next few seasons go by, so that he can retire and let another AD deal with it.
Now-- as to the merits of the argument...if we lose at EMU Friday, that gives us back-to-back losing (8-10) seasons in the MAC. It would also mark the 3rd season in a row where we ended the regular season with a whimper. If we the. lose the first round MAC tournament game, that would also repeat recent history. And, I think that would, under different circumstances, get a coach fired, at a number of schools.
BUT, if we continue our Jeckyl & Hyde play, and win at EMU, that would be a 9-9 MAC record--a small step forward. And, be still my heart, what if we WIN a game in the MAC tournament?
I think the group of new players who will be on the court next season represent the best hope for Toledo and TK. i just don't know if he'll have enough time to show results.
(02-28-2017 09:18 PM)adunifon Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 09:17 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 08:59 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]Time has run out, this program at best has stagnated, at worst, is beginning the free fall we all dread
Give Coach K credit for turning around a dreadful program from his predecessor but now it's time to move on.
Somewhere there is a Keith Dambrot out there waiting to take Toledo to the next level and to the NCAA.
Great. There's a reason Dambrot has 12 straight winning seasons at Akron and is still there.
Yes it us time to fire him when he probably has his best class coming in if you count the transfers give me a break I expected .500 this season and I got it if you expected more you were delusional. If by the time this incoming group graduates and they don't get to the tournament I will be with you until then I won't. Think of it this way if there is any chance of coming here Coach K has to stay if there is any chance of landing Epperson.
He's taken a team to the NCAA. That's for sure. They never do anything in it, but they've gotten there.
(02-28-2017 09:39 PM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 09:18 PM)adunifon Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 09:17 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2017 08:59 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]Time has run out, this program at best has stagnated, at worst, is beginning the free fall we all dread
Give Coach K credit for turning around a dreadful program from his predecessor but now it's time to move on.
Somewhere there is a Keith Dambrot out there waiting to take Toledo to the next level and to the NCAA.
Great. There's a reason Dambrot has 12 straight winning seasons at Akron and is still there.
Yes it us time to fire him when he probably has his best class coming in if you count the transfers give me a break I expected .500 this season and I got it if you expected more you were delusional. If by the time this incoming group graduates and they don't get to the tournament I will be with you until then I won't. Think of it this way if there is any chance of coming here Coach K has to stay if there is any chance of landing Epperson.
He's taken a team to the NCAA. That's for sure. They never do anything in it, but they've gotten there.
well, I'm sure everyone on this thread has done tremendous inspired work this year at their job. No one here has just had a solid responsible and ethical past couple years on the job. None of us resuscitated a failing business, school or program, quickly made it highly successful and then had an average couple years.
yes, TK likely gets paid more than everyone on this thread, and that comes with some extra pressure and expectation but I can't see a program like Toledo, with a track record of firing a fairly successful coach and hiring a fraud of a replacement going to well again to fire the next fairly successful guy.
I do agree with the analysis of O`Brien. He doesn't seem particularly interested in grinding away at work. Closely monitoring budgets, doing exhaustive coaching searches, etc... are not really his thing. More of a work the boosters and fancy people type of guy, imo. someone who can lead a big project here and there but I don't see him as having the intuition to know a potentially great coach from a guy who talks a good game and gives a great handshake.
Coach K (our Coach K) is a credible coach and a fine human being. If he goes, who else are we going to get? He's turned our program around. Sure we are .500 this year, but, we ALL expected that.
We've had great coaches: Larry Gipson won national titles and we had two guys who were sure-fire HOFers with great recommendations from everyone that mattered in Jay Eck and Gene Cross so surely there are more guys like them out there that we can find!
(03-01-2017 08:04 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Coach K (our Coach K) is a credible coach and a fine human being. If he goes, who else are we going to get? He's turned our program around. Sure we are .500 this year, but, we ALL expected that.
I don't think anyone questions TK's character. I certainly won't.
And I am one of those who didn't expect a whole lot this season (although I did think we would be playing our best ball towards the end of the season, so I may have missed on that), so if we do finish 9-9 in the MAC and even win a 1st round MAC tournament game, that would be about what I hoped for.
The question is: why has it so quickly gotten to the point where we "expect" a mediocre season? This is a program that not all that long ago almost won a MAC championship and was in the NIT a couple times, under TK. It is perplexing.
(03-01-2017 08:26 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017 08:04 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Coach K (our Coach K) is a credible coach and a fine human being. If he goes, who else are we going to get? He's turned our program around. Sure we are .500 this year, but, we ALL expected that.
I don't think anyone questions TK's character. I certainly won't.
And I am one of those who didn't expect a whole lot this season (although I did think we would be playing our best ball towards the end of the season, so I may have missed on that), so if we do finish 9-9 in the MAC and even win a 1st round MAC tournament game, that would be about what I hoped for.
The question is: why has it so quickly gotten to the point where we "expect" a mediocre season? This is a program that not all that long ago almost won a MAC championship and was in the NIT a couple times, under TK. It is perplexing.
Poor recruiting. How many players have we had cycle through the program over the last 3-4 years? With likely more to come after this season.
(03-01-2017 08:49 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017 08:26 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017 08:04 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Coach K (our Coach K) is a credible coach and a fine human being. If he goes, who else are we going to get? He's turned our program around. Sure we are .500 this year, but, we ALL expected that.
I don't think anyone questions TK's character. I certainly won't.
And I am one of those who didn't expect a whole lot this season (although I did think we would be playing our best ball towards the end of the season, so I may have missed on that), so if we do finish 9-9 in the MAC and even win a 1st round MAC tournament game, that would be about what I hoped for.
The question is: why has it so quickly gotten to the point where we "expect" a mediocre season? This is a program that not all that long ago almost won a MAC championship and was in the NIT a couple times, under TK. It is perplexing.
Poor recruiting. How many players have we had cycle through the program over the last 3-4 years? With likely more to come after this season.
Agree, too many borderline D1 players, too many D2,3 players.
There has been a lot of personnel changes. A lot of teams experience that. I don't know who on our team is a D2 or D3 player? Who can we expect to transfer this year?
AD doesn't approve contracts. AD just offers them. Correct?
IMHO....... UT should hire a new men's basketball coach. I know it's not going to happen due to budgets, etc. but it should. TK has had his chances and the results are underwhelming. I like TK and I do not get any pleasure out of stating my opinion. I am only sharing my opinion since I think the men's program drastically needs a face lift. UT decided a decade ago that a "face lift" was needed when the "revamped" Savage Arena was announced (ax Joplin) and it is now time to leave the past behind again and start anew. The men's program has flat-lined and DESPERATELY needs an enthusiasm injection.
I don't like suggesting that someone's job be whacked but in coaching it's always the larger picture (what's good for the school and fans) that needs to be kept in mind and addressed. UT will continue to sail on in flat windless sea with TK at the helm. TK's a safe bet for mediocrity but that's about as far as UT will ever achieve with his coaching skills. A great coach can be a great recruiter, practice coach, or game coach. Or like all the truly great coaches they can excel at all three. I cannot honestly say that TK is above average at any facet of coaching. He is an average at best recruiter. I cannot comment on his "practice" skills but his bench strategy and ability to make in-game adjustments seems almost totally lacking. Therefore, he surely seems to be either average or below average in 2 of the three key areas of coaching.
I have had season tickets since '66-67 season (1st 10 years with my Dad) so I guess I feel I can express my opinion but I feel guilty for my non-support of TK. I guess my 40 years in the auto industry has made me nervous about lay-offs and other people's lay-offs so calling someone out is not what I like to do.
I hope that UT/TK surges next year but I have my extreme doubts. Our normal is not greatness. Only a new coach is likely to bring us to that level.
Go Rockets & UT!!!!!!!
Should have been fired two years ago. I had an 8th grade bb coach that taught better defensive play - from the team and the individuals'. I've left at the arena and turned off games in the 2nd half because they had no way of winning. And they didn't.
MOB has to be looked at based on his work. It has not been awe inspiring.
(03-01-2017 08:04 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Coach K (our Coach K) is a credible coach and a fine human being. If he goes, who else are we going to get? He's turned our program around. Sure we are .500 this year, but, we ALL expected that.
This attitude of "who else are we going to get?" resigns oneself to permanent underachiever status.
Also, I have little to substantiate he turned the program around.
He only got it to the position any level headed coach would strive to achieve with a focus on student athletes success and personal accountability and credibility. And who had the facilities and advantages of U Toledo in the MAC.
The only hope I guess is for coach to resign, fans start booing him at games, or fans stop coming to the games and then perhaps he will leave under pressure. To keep his job, perhaps he lands a 4 star recruit or recruits and /or get new assistants. Here in the Miami valley, we are fortunate to have Archie Miller at UD and now first year head Coach Nagy, Wright State, who enjoy a 20 win season, with far less talent then UT.
(03-01-2017 05:44 PM)Springboromark Wrote: [ -> ]The only hope I guess is for coach to resign, fans start booing him at games, or fans stop coming to the games and then perhaps he will leave under pressure. To keep his job, perhaps he lands a 4 star recruit or recruits and /or get new assistants. Here in the Miami valley, we are fortunate to have Archie Miller at UD and now first year head Coach Nagy, Wright State, who enjoy a 20 win season, with far less talent then UT.
Didn't first year Head Coach Nagy at Wright State lose to Toledo this year and not get one of his 20 wins at home against Rockets?