The eastern all sports conference that never was has always been one of those great what ifs of conference realignment. We all know what happened--egos got in the way and ultimately the basketball first faction of the Big East won the day and kept Penn St out dooming eastern football.
But what if they had been able to work something out? In the Eastern 8 Penn St had a built in faction that included Pitt, Rutgers, and West Virginia. Meanwhile, the power brokers who built the Big East were Syracuse, and non football schools Providence Georgetown, and St John's.
What if Penn St was able to convince BC and Syracuse that they could count on the new league to basketball friendly and focused on big eastern cities? Syracuse and BC could join a new league with the Penn St faction and basketball schools Georgetown and St John's could be part of the deal. That makes 8 schools, 6 with football.
To round out the league Temple and UConn could fill things out. Temple at the the time was unaffiliated with either side and didn't get into the A-10 until after the Big East formed and teams shuffled around but they did bring a big market and an FBS football program. UConn on the other hand was another basketball first school at the time and one that the Big East power brokers would invite to their league.
Take this league and add VA Tech as a football affiliate you have a pretty solid group. Wait a few years and when Miami (FL) decides to seek out a conference home the Hurricanes become the 11th full member and VA Tech gets full membership to make an even 12.
Thoughts?
Penn St, Pitt, Temple, Syracuse, UCONN, Boston College, Buffalo, UMASS, Virginia Tech, Miami, West Virginia, Cincy would have been a great conference.
Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
(02-27-2017 08:39 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
Thats a hell of a conference!
(02-27-2017 08:39 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
That's where I think they messed up--they needed to balance the football power with some basketball prowess.
The group I proposed would have given them that.
(02-27-2017 09:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 08:39 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
That's where I think they messed up--they needed to balance the football power with some basketball prowess.
The group I proposed would have given them that.
Theres your BBall prowess. Even Rutgers made a Final Four in the late 70's.
BC and Syracuse didn't want to leave the BE Too bad they couldn't convince Georgetown St Johns or Villanova that Penn St was worthy of an invite. That may have delayed PSU's move to B10 and maybe a BE FB league with PSU would have attracted other schools (FSU? )
Looks like the original BE minus Miami and plus a couple.
(02-27-2017 09:02 PM)gosports1 Wrote: [ -> ]BC and Syracuse didn't want to leave the BE Too bad they couldn't convince Georgetown St Johns or Villanova that Penn St was worthy of an invite. That may have delayed PSU's move to B10 and maybe a BE FB league with PSU would have attracted other schools (FSU? )
If they could have brought St John's and Georgetown into a league with Penn St maybe things would have been different. Villanova might have been able to be squeezed in too but it would have made the initial conference a 12 member affair and back then conferences that large were virtually unheard of.
(02-27-2017 09:06 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like the original BE minus Miami and plus a couple.
Pretty much--I left out Providence since they were the least attractive of the Big East power brokers (and likely one of the No votes against the Nitany Lions)
I also left out Seton Hall--according to Syracuse's old AD the Pirates weren't part of the original plan and they wanted Rutgers instead but the Scarlet Knights wanted to remain loyal to Penn St and declined when first offered. Seton Hall took their spot, blocking their admission for more than a decade.
Villanova was the hard one to leave out. They weren't in the initial Big East line up and had history with Penn St, Rutgers, WVU, and Pitt from the Eastern 8 but if the goal was a football league Temple would be the better option for the Philly market.
My guess is that these 3 along with the other 3 schools left behind in the Eastern 8--UMass, Duquesne, and George Washington would have joined forces and added a few others like Rhode Island and St Bonaventure and move on.
(02-27-2017 09:02 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 09:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 08:39 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
That's where I think they messed up--they needed to balance the football power with some basketball prowess.
The group I proposed would have given them that.
Theres your BBall prowess. Even Rutgers made a Final Four in the late 70's.
The schools you bolded definitely carry some serious basketball weight but I was trying to create a conference that would not only be a solid football league built around Penn St but also have the same basketball pedigree that made the old Big East a hoops behemoth.
On another note, would Maryland have wanted to jump onboard this Eastern Superleague concept or would they have been more inclined to maintain their relationships with UVA and UNC in the ACC?
One has to imagine the conference realignment bug would have still hit at some point and even though that conference has some nice pieces, it still looks very poachable.
(02-27-2017 09:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 09:02 PM)gosports1 Wrote: [ -> ]BC and Syracuse didn't want to leave the BE Too bad they couldn't convince Georgetown St Johns or Villanova that Penn St was worthy of an invite. That may have delayed PSU's move to B10 and maybe a BE FB league with PSU would have attracted other schools (FSU? )
If they could have brought St John's and Georgetown into a league with Penn St maybe things would have been different. Villanova might have been able to be squeezed in too but it would have made the initial conference a 12 member affair and back then conferences that large were virtually unheard of.
st johns, villanova and Georgetown weren't in favor of adding PSU to the BE. they cast the 3 "unofficial" no votes. imo they would be unlikely to want to form a new conference when it would be easier to just add psu to existing one. Also gtown, st johns and pc were pretty tight at the time. (despite the differences in the quality of the BB programs at that time). i guess we'll never know
(02-27-2017 08:39 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: [ -> ]Here was Joe Pa's Eastern league:
Boston College
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia
swap Maryland, Pitt, West Virginia and PSU with Georgetown, St Johns,UConn and Providence and you have the original plan for the BE.
Had this been the original BE, when the time came PSU would have the 6 votes needed to gain full membership
Did the football-centric teams want Va Tech?
I think we should do away with the P5 and G5 names, and realign the conferences by region. We could throw in some FCS schools in large cities to be part of the new FBS like Chattanooga and others.
(02-27-2017 09:39 PM)gosports1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 09:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2017 09:02 PM)gosports1 Wrote: [ -> ]BC and Syracuse didn't want to leave the BE Too bad they couldn't convince Georgetown St Johns or Villanova that Penn St was worthy of an invite. That may have delayed PSU's move to B10 and maybe a BE FB league with PSU would have attracted other schools (FSU? )
If they could have brought St John's and Georgetown into a league with Penn St maybe things would have been different. Villanova might have been able to be squeezed in too but it would have made the initial conference a 12 member affair and back then conferences that large were virtually unheard of.
st johns, villanova and Georgetown weren't in favor of adding PSU to the BE. they cast the 3 "unofficial" no votes. imo they would be unlikely to want to form a new conference when it would be easier to just add psu to existing one. Also gtown, st johns and pc were pretty tight at the time. (despite the differences in the quality of the BB programs at that time). i guess we'll never know
My thoughts were that the ideal time that this league could have formed was between 1976 when the Eastern 8 formed and 1979 when the Big East formed--that way it wouldn't be a matter adding a school to the Big East. It also would mean that schools like Seton Hall and Providence wouldn't have had a say.
As far as the no votes go I'm guessing that they came from 3 of the following 4:
Providence, Seton Hall, Georgetown, and St John's
One of them voted yes along with Syracuse, BC, UConn, and Villanova.
(02-27-2017 09:56 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]Did the football-centric teams want Va Tech?
I don't think they wanted them so much as needed them as a means to an end in ensuring they had enough schools for a full football conference and. Pull out one the basketball schools. If they truly wanted VA Tech it wouldn't have taken them (and Rutgers) so long to get full membership in the BE.
(02-27-2017 09:56 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]Did the football-centric teams want Va Tech?
Back in those days VT was a peer with ECU. Rutgers and Temple were considered almost FCS when The Big East Conference started up in the early 90's. I thought it was disgraceful (as a young Iowa fan) when they formed Big East Football and made them a Bowl Coalition conference or whatever dumb label the first form of the BCS/P5 was called then. I thought the WAC belonged more than that group of schools. From east to west: SEC/ACC/Big 10/Big 8/SWC/WAC/PAC....plus the Major Independents.
Cheers!
(02-27-2017 08:27 PM)Rabonchild Wrote: [ -> ]Penn St, Pitt, Temple, Syracuse, UCONN, Boston College, Buffalo, UMASS, Virginia Tech, Miami, West Virginia, Cincy would have been a great conference.
That's putting a 21st century spin that didn't reflect reality in the 1970's. UConn and UMass would not have been part of that group. They were both minor league at that time. I don't even know without looking it up if Buffalo sports existed that far back. And there was little affinity with schools like Va Tech and Miami.
If Paterno could have had his eight football schools, there might have been an outside chance they could have added St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova and Providence as basketball affiliates, but I doubt they would have seen value in a league that big in the 70's.