President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
(02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
I'm not sure the same path is open to the schools you mentioned or any public school. Prior to LU's waiver the last time a private school became FBS was in 1978. That was awhile ago. Since then tons of public schools went FBS. So I think the waiver had more to do with LU having the funds, buildings and being a private religious university. I don't know for sure but it feels that way.
I can see Youngstown St, James Madison, and Jacksonville St all trying to make FBS happen.
Youngstown St has the easiest path--no one in the Horizon is going to object to the move since they don't play FCS as a league. The penguins have felt betrayed and left behind since Akron ditched them and I see them capable of competing with the Ohio MAC schools.
Jacksonville St could face ejection from the OVC for attempting the move but I think they just park themselves in the A-Sun where they'll have a slightly more expensive travel budget but would get a lot of trips to Florida for recruiting trips which would be an upgrade over Tennessee and Kentucky.
If James Madison tries to move up I think they should try to convince Delaware to move with them. The loss of two CAA full members means that America East, with four members in the football league, probably takes over FB sponsorship, and while the CAA would be peeved there's not much they could do about it.
Stony Brook is another wildcard out there. I think they have athletic aspirations and they have great academics but Hofstra is blocking them. FBS independence could be just the move they need.
If all of these schools attempted to move that means 5 more Indies in addition to Liberty and UMass. To me, that's the makings of a pretty nice FB only conference/scheduling alliance with only Jacksonville St being a huge geographic outlier.
Lets just look at JSU and YSU
JSU
Endowment...12 million.
Undergrad enrollment: 7,588
Total enrollment: 8,658
Population growth since 1980...-2.5%
football facility: 24,000 (expanded in 2010)
Thinly capitalized, in an economically and demographically stagnant area, and completely smothered from a media perspective. Three FBS programs within 2 hours. FIVE FBS programs within 2 hours. And all 5 will have massive competitive advantages over JSU.
YSU
Endowment: 225 million
Undergraduates: 13k
Total enrollment: 15k
Population growth since 1980: -20%
Football facility: 20,637 built in 1980.
More endowment and students than JSU, but small enrollment and horrendous economic and demographic growth. Three P5 programs within 2.5 hours, 3 additional G5 programs in that same footprint.
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I'm not sure that Independent FBS football is really viable for either of them.
Forever.
Youngstown isn't going to move up without a conference invitation. Neither is Jax St. They need the affiliation. Liberty wants the exposure for their national on-line programs and is willing to sink money in and travel. Youngstown and Jax are regional programs.
Other schools like Illinois St. and Missouri St. fit the profile of an FBS school, but couldn't make the economics work and both likely had conference invites in hand.
There aren't going to be many. Most of the schools who could have already made the move.
The only schools I see possibly doing it are Big Sky schools moving up separately, much like the Northern Sun schools gradually moved up to Division I (UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNO, UNC).
Youngstown ST does not get anywhere close to 20k people at games.
The 2 playoff games they played at home this year had 6k and 8k people.
That's high school attendance. No business being in FBS as they dont' even come close to meeting the minimum 15k attendance threshold.
I'd love to see the NCAA actually enforce the rules for once and stop all these programs from joining FBS.
(02-18-2017 10:42 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]Other schools like Illinois St. and Missouri St. fit the profile of an FBS school, but couldn't make the economics work and both likely had conference invites in hand.
There aren't going to be many. Most of the schools who could have already made the move.
The only schools I see possibly doing it are Big Sky schools moving up separately, much like the Northern Sun schools gradually moved up to Division I (UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNO, UNC).
North Central Conference not Northern Sun.
(02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
(02-18-2017 10:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Lets just look at JSU and YSU
JSU
Endowment...12 million.
Undergrad enrollment: 7,588
Total enrollment: 8,658
Population growth since 1980...-2.5%
football facility: 24,000 (expanded in 2010)
Thinly capitalized, in an economically and demographically stagnant area, and completely smothered from a media perspective. Three FBS programs within 2 hours. FIVE FBS programs within 2 hours. And all 5 will have massive competitive advantages over JSU.
Endowment: 225 million
Undergraduates: 13k
Total enrollment: 15k
Population growth since 1980: -20%
Football facility: 20,637 built in 1980.
More endowment and students than JSU, but small enrollment and horrendous economic and demographic growth. Three P5 programs within 2.5 hours, 3 additional G5 programs in that same footprint.
---
I'm not sure that Independent FBS football is really viable for either of them.
Im not sure which 5 fbs schools you are talking about. Within 2hrs. If they included uab and ga st. I believe we can compete. Youd need to include ga tech. All within 2 hrs. If your counting uat its about 3.5 hrs and auburn 3hrs. Really who can compete with that it certainly isnt troy st or usa who are much closer but still manage to be fbs.
While Jax St. Does have its challenges, as does most g5 schools, i see no reason we cannot compete with cusa and sbc schools. As far as being ready weve also upgraded our softball facilities and our basketball facilities have been improved to that of an upper level OVC facility we are currently building a new baseball facility, and have plans for a new facilities for tennis and a multi million dollar recreation center. We have already added beach volleyball which isnt a hugh deal but it adds a womens sport.
as far as economic growth Jacksonville is a small town but economic growth in the Anniston/Oxford area, which is our neighboring area, and Gadsden has grown a considerable amout in the past decade with no reason to believe it will slow down anytime soon. We are strategically located half way between Birmingham and Atlanta for recruiting and are in the Birmingham Media market.
If a group of schools move up indy together and somewhat regionally many difficulties can be mitigated and could easily compete with the sbc and cusa. Also any future conference invites will be given to these fbs i dys rather than fcs schools.
(02-18-2017 11:46 AM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
Used to live in the upper Ohio Valley.
But things have changed. The Utica formation is one of the biggest gas finds ever. Thousands of jobs and E Ohio. WPa, and N WV are no longer economic basket cases. Huge petrochemical complexes are setting up there, like Shell's new cracker plant. The area will be a jr Texas Coast.
FBS is in the DNA of those schools way more than academics. Liberty may have created an opening that both will use.
(02-18-2017 11:58 AM)cleburneslim Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 10:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Lets just look at JSU and YSU
JSU
Endowment...12 million.
Undergrad enrollment: 7,588
Total enrollment: 8,658
Population growth since 1980...-2.5%
football facility: 24,000 (expanded in 2010)
Thinly capitalized, in an economically and demographically stagnant area, and completely smothered from a media perspective. Three FBS programs within 2 hours. FIVE FBS programs within 2 hours. And all 5 will have massive competitive advantages over JSU.
Endowment: 225 million
Undergraduates: 13k
Total enrollment: 15k
Population growth since 1980: -20%
Football facility: 20,637 built in 1980.
More endowment and students than JSU, but small enrollment and horrendous economic and demographic growth. Three P5 programs within 2.5 hours, 3 additional G5 programs in that same footprint.
---
I'm not sure that Independent FBS football is really viable for either of them.
Im not sure which 5 fbs schools you are talking about. Within 2hrs. If they included uab and ga st. I believe we can compete. Youd need to include ga tech. All within 2 hrs. If your counting uat its about 3.5 hrs and auburn 3hrs. Really who can compete with that it certainly isnt troy st or usa who are much closer but still manage to be fbs.
While Jax St. Does have its challenges, as does most g5 schools, i see no reason we cannot compete with cusa and sbc schools. As far as being ready weve also upgraded our softball facilities and our basketball facilities have been improved to that of an upper level OVC facility we are currently building a new baseball facility, and have plans for a new facilities for tennis and a multi million dollar recreation center. We have already added beach volleyball which isnt a hugh deal but it adds a womens sport.
as far as economic growth Jacksonville is a small town but economic growth in the Anniston/Oxford area, which is our neighboring area, and Gadsden has grown a considerable amout in the past decade with no reason to believe it will slow down anytime soon. We are strategically located half way between Birmingham and Atlanta for recruiting and are in the Birmingham Media market.
Tuscaloosa is 135 miles from JSU. Auburn and Ga Tech are the other two. UAB and Ga State are the other G5 programs.
Etowah and Calhoun Counties have lost population in the last 30 years. and exurban commuters are not a good target group for casual fan growth.
Birmingham news will start with Alabama, then cover Auburn, then cover UAB, and then....maybe JSU (but Samford is right there).
You have fewer students than all but one FBS public school (and that school struggles in FBS). You have a small alumni base. You have a virtually non-existant endowment.
If you'd like to try FBS, go for it. But I'm not seeing JSU as being much of a threat on the FBS level. And Ga State and Troy will block you guys from the Belt. And UAB will block you from CUSA. And if you go it alone or form a FCS moveup conference, you'll have no CFP money, bad bowl choices, and scheduling problems.
JSU's faults aren't really JSU's fault. And you do more with less. But I just don't see successful FBS in JSU's future.
(02-18-2017 12:18 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 11:46 AM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
Used to live in the upper Ohio Valley.
But things have changed. The Utica formation is one of the biggest gas finds ever. Thousands of jobs and E Ohio. WPa, and N WV are no longer economic basket cases. Huge petrochemical complexes are setting up there, like Shell's new cracker plant. The area will be a jr Texas Coast.
Blue collar jobs, largely comprised of transplants, in an area with the NFL, is not a recipe for FBS moveup support in most cases.
The Birmingham to Atlanta corridor is destined for growth, though it hasn't happened for Gadsden yet. Shocked that Talledega Speedway was in such a podunk town.. If that can be built up, JSU FBS will be easy in comparison.
(02-18-2017 12:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:18 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 11:46 AM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
Used to live in the upper Ohio Valley.
But things have changed. The Utica formation is one of the biggest gas finds ever. Thousands of jobs and E Ohio. WPa, and N WV are no longer economic basket cases. Huge petrochemical complexes are setting up there, like Shell's new cracker plant. The area will be a jr Texas Coast.
Blue collar jobs, largely comprised of transplants, in an area with the NFL, is not a recipe for FBS moveup support in most cases.
Mineral rights have brought in untold wealth to that area. It's one of the untold reasons that all three states have dramatically swung right politically. TCU rebuilt up its program on nat gas rights in Ft Worth, as alumni had an amazing increase in wealth ten - fifteen years ago.
(02-18-2017 12:37 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:18 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 11:46 AM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2017 10:26 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]President Jim Tressel has had a goal of Youngstown St going FBS ever since he was a coach there. Hired Bo BelinI on Nebraska's dime. Stambaugh Stadium seats 20.6 k, and Youngstown St attracts almost the same crowds as Akron and Kent St for fb. It has 18 sports, so it doesn't need to add any, and it's main league, the Horizon, would not complain if YSU went FBS. YSU almost certainly wouldn't get offers from any FBS conference, so why wait?
Jacksonville St completed a stadium expansion to 24k in 2010. They seem to desperately want to be at Troy's level, who is an historical rival. Jacksonville St was actually almost competitIve with Alabama when they recently played, as the Gamecocks have relied on many FBS transfers. They have less than 9k students, so that is a negative and 15 athletic teams, so they would need to add a women's team. They have asked the Sun Belt for admission, but with two Alabama teams already there, so they were told no. The OVC may have a problem with an FBS team, but they can just slide over to the Atlantic Sun, which is also taking in an old state rival of N Alabama. Jacksonville St doesn't have anything to lose by applying for a waiver.
With Liberty, NMSU, UMass, and BYU for late season game, YSU and JSU could easily get their required FBS schedule. They want FBS and don't have any other way to get there.
Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
Used to live in the upper Ohio Valley.
But things have changed. The Utica formation is one of the biggest gas finds ever. Thousands of jobs and E Ohio. WPa, and N WV are no longer economic basket cases. Huge petrochemical complexes are setting up there, like Shell's new cracker plant. The area will be a jr Texas Coast.
Blue collar jobs, largely comprised of transplants, in an area with the NFL, is not a recipe for FBS moveup support in most cases.
Mineral rights have brought in untold wealth to that area. It's one of the reasons that all three state have dramatically swung right politically. TCU built up its program on nat gas rights in Ft Worth, as alumni had an amazing increase in wealth ten years ago.
Does YSU own the mineral rights? If not, you might find that the economic benefits will be concentrated in a few hands. Maybe some extra coin to YSU, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I've worked in Nat Gas related fields for 20 years. People always seem to overstate the impact of production finds. Boom times always lead to overproduction. We will see if this really translates for YSU. Or for Youngstown in a massive manner. I'll believe it when I see it.
(02-18-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:37 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 12:18 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2017 11:46 AM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ]Once again go visit Youngstown....... you'll see why they won't move up.
Used to live in the upper Ohio Valley.
But things have changed. The Utica formation is one of the biggest gas finds ever. Thousands of jobs and E Ohio. WPa, and N WV are no longer economic basket cases. Huge petrochemical complexes are setting up there, like Shell's new cracker plant. The area will be a jr Texas Coast.
Blue collar jobs, largely comprised of transplants, in an area with the NFL, is not a recipe for FBS moveup support in most cases.
Mineral rights have brought in untold wealth to that area. It's one of the reasons that all three state have dramatically swung right politically. TCU built up its program on nat gas rights in Ft Worth, as alumni had an amazing increase in wealth ten years ago.
Does YSU own the mineral rights? If not, you might find that the economic benefits will be concentrated in a few hands. Maybe some extra coin to YSU, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I've worked in Nat Gas related fields for 20 years. People always seem to overstate the impact of production finds. Boom times always lead to overproduction. We will see if this really translates for YSU. Or for Youngstown in a massive manner. I'll believe it when I see it.
Drilling Barnett Shale centered around Ft Worth has been replaced by Utica Shale drilling, as that formation yields so much more valuable nat gas liquids of ethane, propane, bUtaNE and natural gasoline.. Mahoning County where Youngtown lies is sitting on a fortune that was unthinkable even five or ten years ago.
Many of the hyped gas fields don't have enough NGLs, so they aren't drilled now as they can't compete with the Utica and Marcellus shales now for economic returns. A return of higher methane prices may change that.
Youngstown State fails the money test, big time. Liberty was granted the waiver because of their financial capabilities, and YSU doesn't have the cash to sustain the move, even with Tressel having improved fundraising somewhat.