CSNbbs

It's my understanding that leagues announce expansion plans and groups from various cities make proposals. What cities weren't picked in various rounds of expansion? (Across all NA sports)

(12-22-2016 10:42 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]It's my understanding that leagues announce expansion plans and groups from various cities make proposals. What cities weren't picked in various rounds of expansion? (Across all NA sports)

Seattle and KC never got those NHL franchises....


But.... at what point are you making a line in the sand on a want to, tried to, put up a bid, lost bid for, rumored to but never went official to said league?

The line I'm thinking: officially a finalist. And in case it matters: post-WWII.

(12-22-2016 11:33 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]The line I'm thinking: officially a finalist. And in case it matters: post-WWII.

What would you call a moving franchise that had multiple bidders but picked one locale?

Thoughts along the lines of:

NHL:

Whalers picking Raleigh
Jets moving to Arizona
Nordiques moving to Colorado
Thrashers moving to Winnipeg

NBA:

I want to say the Kings were originally in KC, then ended up in Sacramento, not sure who else was trying to lure them.

Seattle Sonics picked OKC over other choices....

Grizzlies move to Memphis from Vancouver....

I don't remember all the cities in the pool that ended up being the Final Four of Minnesota, Charlotte, Orlando, and Miami back in the mid to late 80s.

I don't recall all the candidates when the NBA went to Canada with Vancouver and Toronto.

NFL:

I don't remember the pool when Charlotte/Carolina and Jacksonville got the nod.

Then you had the repercussions expansions of Cleveland Browns to the Baltimore Ravens, Houston Oilers to Tennessee Titans with a new Browns team coming back to Cleveland and Houston being awarded the Texans.

I wouldn't even know where to start when the CFL tried North American expansion ....

Then you have the WLAF.....that half of it morphed into NFLE when the US franchises went down.

Pirate: that's relocating, not expansion!

(12-23-2016 12:18 AM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]Pirate: that's relocating, not expansion!

Relocating teams fielded multiple bids from cities and picked one over the other ... so in some regards that would be getting declined for a pro franchise.

I believe the Sonics had multiple suitors and settled on OKC. So in essence those cities the Sonics didn't choose were denied a new team.

Uh, I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that IS NOT expansion!

(12-23-2016 01:10 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the Sonics had multiple suitors and settled on OKC. So in essence those cities the Sonics didn't choose were denied a new team.

No, the billionaire Sonics owner (founder of Starbucks) wanted to spite Seattle for not promptly gifting him a new arena, so he sold the team to owners based in Oklahoma who bought the franchise with the intention of moving it to OKC.

He was trying to railroad them, proposing an arena in an awful location and then putting in unrealistic terms so he could justify moving if they refused. They had just renovated Key Arena a little over a decade earlier. Worst yet, the NBA commissioner was bullheaded and behind it 110%, so he could get a team in OKC.

That team should have been the Hornets (now Pelicans), as New Orleans was struggling to support that team and in reality is not a pro sports market. That's right, it's not a pro sports market, the Saints have been there almost 50 years but the NFL has the added benefit of being a weekend sport, so people throughout Louisiana and Mississippi can support them as well. Those states are among the very poorest states in the entire country and New Orleans has among the lowest median income levels of all pro sports places. We saw just how impoverished and how big the city's underclass was after Katrina hit.

It's a damn shame what these leagues and owners do to leverage teams into doing their bidding.

(12-25-2016 12:39 AM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]He was trying to railroad them, proposing an arena in an awful location and then putting in unrealistic terms so he could justify moving if they refused. They had just renovated Key Arena a little over a decade earlier. Worst yet, the NBA commissioner was bullheaded and behind it 110%, so he could get a team in OKC.

That team should have been the Hornets (now Pelicans), as New Orleans was struggling to support that team and in reality is not a pro sports market. That's right, it's not a pro sports market, the Saints have been there almost 50 years but the NFL has the added benefit of being a weekend sport, so people throughout Louisiana and Mississippi can support them as well. Those states are among the very poorest states in the entire country and New Orleans has among the lowest median income levels of all pro sports places. We saw just how impoverished and how big the city's underclass was after Katrina hit.

It's a damn shame what these leagues and owners do to leverage teams into doing their bidding.

Were the then Hornets/ now Pelicans actually in a situation to financially have to move out of NO though? As I recall, NO have Shinn a sweetheart deal to pull the Hornets out of Charlotte and so the moved -- then of course the NBA, wanting a minority owner (who at this time had the BET Network) threw a bone to Charlotte and let them get a new team in the Bobcats. Now that all the dust has settles, the Charlotte to NO Hornets are now the Pelicans and the "NEW" Bobcats addition has been renamed the Hornets.

The Bobcats had nothing to do with anything. Some years back, New Orleans built a new arena. Their first target was the Rockets but Houston approved the building of Toyota Center. Then, as the Hornets had a falling out with Charlotte, they moved to NO. But, as I pointed out, fan support was tough in New Orleans as they finished dead last in attendance in 2005 at around 7,100/game.

Their saving grace was the hurricane and the politics surrounding that. The NBA didn't want to look like it was abandoning New Orleans during a tragedy, so they had them move back from OKC even as they proved they could be a suitable host. Seattle got the shaft as both their new owner and the NBA did everything possible to pigeonhole the Sonics from Seattle and uproot 40 years of NBA tradition.

But as evidenced by their lack of a TV market, early attendance and poverty in New Orleans (seen very much during Katrina), New Orleans shouldn't be hosting pro sports. The Saints maybe and that's only because of how long they've been there and the nature of the NFL.

For the 1993 MLB Expansion
The selection of Miami and Denver ended a six-year contest among six finalists. Although baseball has now expanded its geographic scope to give Florida and the Rocky Mountain region their first teams, the selection leaves four bitter losers: Washington (Nationals), Buffalo (Bison) and two other Florida sites, St. Petersburg-Tampa and Orlando (Sun Rays).

For the 1998 MLB Expansion
After whittling down the field to four finalists (Northern Virginia, Orlando, Phoenix and Tampa), MLB announced Phoenix and Tampa as the two expansion franchises on March 9, 1995.

For the 1974 NFL Expansion
The five finalists for an expansion teams were Memphis, Honolulu, Phoenix, Seattle, and Tampa Bay

For the 1995 NFL Expansion
The five cities that were finalists were Jacksonville (Jaguars), Charlotte (Panthers), Memphis (the Hound Dogs), Baltimore (the Bombers) and St. Louis (the Stallions)

For the 2002 NFL Expansion
Less than seven months after conditionally awarding its 32nd franchise to Los
Angeles, NFL owners pulled a reverse and selected Houston as the next
expansion city

I would guess the New Orleans pelicans become the Seattle super? sonics someday

I don't see them leaving any time soon. Granted, the Pelicans are in the bottom third of attendance but I believe their attendance is stable. That is what should happen though (for them to become the Sonics).

(12-28-2016 10:05 AM)bostonspider Wrote: [ -> ]For the 1993 MLB Expansion
The selection of Miami and Denver ended a six-year contest among six finalists. Although baseball has now expanded its geographic scope to give Florida and the Rocky Mountain region their first teams, the selection leaves four bitter losers: Washington (Nationals), Buffalo (Bison) and two other Florida sites, St. Petersburg-Tampa and Orlando (Sun Rays).

For the 1998 MLB Expansion
After whittling down the field to four finalists (Northern Virginia, Orlando, Phoenix and Tampa), MLB announced Phoenix and Tampa as the two expansion franchises on March 9, 1995.

For the 1974 NFL Expansion
The five finalists for an expansion teams were Memphis, Honolulu, Phoenix, Seattle, and Tampa Bay

For the 1995 NFL Expansion
The five cities that were finalists were Jacksonville (Jaguars), Charlotte (Panthers), Memphis (the Hound Dogs), Baltimore (the Bombers) and St. Louis (the Stallions)

For the 2002 NFL Expansion
Less than seven months after conditionally awarding its 32nd franchise to Los
Angeles, NFL owners pulled a reverse and selected Houston as the next
expansion city

THANKS for actually answering the question! I assume the 60s were a different situation. BTW: any NBA or NHL info?

i think vegas and montreal are the only practical cities left for expansion. i don't even think there is need for expansion anywhere, but give vegas a hoops team and the 'spos their damn baseball team back! portland could probably field a hockey team and seattle needs it's hoops back. yeah, move the pelicans there. maybe the blue jackets could move to portland because columbus sucks.

(12-28-2016 10:05 AM)bostonspider Wrote: [ -> ]For the 1993 MLB Expansion
The selection of Miami and Denver ended a six-year contest among six finalists. Although baseball has now expanded its geographic scope to give Florida and the Rocky Mountain region their first teams, the selection leaves four bitter losers: Washington (Nationals), Buffalo (Bison) and two other Florida sites, St. Petersburg-Tampa and Orlando (Sun Rays).

For the 1998 MLB Expansion
After whittling down the field to four finalists (Northern Virginia, Orlando, Phoenix and Tampa), MLB announced Phoenix and Tampa as the two expansion franchises on March 9, 1995.

I thought the Colorado Rockies, Florida Marlins, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and Arizona Diamondbacks were all at the same time.

I forget what year that DC got the Nationals.

I didn't remember Buffalo putting in a bid although I could see it.

(12-28-2016 10:05 AM)bostonspider Wrote: [ -> ]For the 1974 NFL Expansion
The five finalists for an expansion teams were Memphis, Honolulu, Phoenix, Seattle, and Tampa Bay

For the 1995 NFL Expansion
The five cities that were finalists were Jacksonville (Jaguars), Charlotte (Panthers), Memphis (the Hound Dogs), Baltimore (the Bombers) and St. Louis (the Stallions)

For the 2002 NFL Expansion
Less than seven months after conditionally awarding its 32nd franchise to Los
Angeles, NFL owners pulled a reverse and selected Houston as the next
expansion city

When did the LA Rams move to St. Louis? I am wondering if that franchise moving impacted St. Louis for an expansion team.... but then again ... I don't recall the year the Cardinals moved out of St. Louis to head to Phoenix.

I wonder what Honolulu had as part of their package/bid... I have no idea if Pro Bowls were already being played there.

(12-28-2016 06:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote: [ -> ]I thought the Colorado Rockies, Florida Marlins, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and Arizona Diamondbacks were all at the same time.

I forget what year that DC got the Nationals.

I didn't remember Buffalo putting in a bid although I could see it.

The first two in 1993, the last two in 1998.

The Expos moved to become the Nationals in 2005.