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1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

I don't want to answer for X but in my opinion the ACC would take Cincinnati over UCONN. Cincinnati academics are still good plus they have better football tradition & would offer a new market while enhancing recruiting. Also Cincinnati reportedly finished second in the vote to replace Maryland. IIRC UCONN didn't even have enough support to bring them to a vote.
Lol. SEC is not taking Baylor.
(10-30-2016 07:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote: [ -> ]Lol. SEC is not taking Baylor.

Exactly!
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

The ACC would take Cincinnati over UConn?..........without a doubt!
(10-30-2016 07:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote: [ -> ]Lol. SEC is not taking Baylor.

If you don't get Baylor, then you have to take West Virginia.........your choice.
(10-30-2016 07:23 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 07:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote: [ -> ]Lol. SEC is not taking Baylor.

Exactly!

Yes I saw that too and have to agree. I think Baylor may be left behind (especially with the most recent scandal news).
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

While I think your assessment of the situation is pretty much on target, I don't believe for a moment that the SEC would take Baylor in this arrangement. West Virginia (though not viable as an individual candidate) makes much more sense for the SEC in terms of brand, content, and value than does Baylor.

I also don't see Missouri leaving unless it was their desire to do so.

I do think that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are the key to finally parsing the Big 12. And I do think Oklahoma is best suited for the SEC and that the Cowboys will fit in.

I also think that in the end, provided ESPN gets something out of it, that the PAC is the best place for Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U. and that B.Y.U. makes sense for the PAC as well under the conditions you lay out.

But here's what I think will likely happen if we go that route, which remains to be seen:

At 16

OU & OSU to the SEC. (Only if ESPN gets more of the Big 10 and therefore permits Texas to go there.)

Texas & Kansas to the Big 10.

Texas Tech and T.C.U. to the PAC.

West Virginia and Notre Dame to the ACC.

The networks thinking is to optimize markets by dividing Texas.


But what if ESPN insists upon keeping Texas?

Then Texas and Kansas head to the SEC.

Oklahoma and Connecticut head to the Big 10.

T.C.U. and Texas Tech head to the PAC with a third if the PAC sells ESPN a % of their network. If not they may not add anyone.

ACC?

**************************************************************

However it might behoove us to consider what it would look like if the Big 10 / SEC and ACC moved to 18 each:

It's an odd thing I haven't thrown into the mix so far (although I talked about the merits of 18 four years ago) but going to 18 makes this much more likely.

For instance the Big 10 if it landed Texas, Kansas, and Iowa State and could expand more to the East with Connecticut could solve some divisional problems:

Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Texas

Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State Rutgers



18 gives the PAC better penetration into Texas (if they wanted to do it):

Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Houston, T.C.U., Texas Tech

B.Y.U., California, Cal Los Angeles, Hawaii or New Mexico, San Diego State (or a Nevada school), Southern Cal

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Washington State



18 works for the ACC as well:

Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Baylor or Tulane, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest


Then the SEC could address some issues the by doing something like the following:

Arkansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

East Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee


Why Baylor or Tulane for the ACC? New Orleans is a solid market add for the network.
The ACC is the only conference that could accommodate Baylor, and New Orleans makes for a nice connection to Northeast Texas.

Why East Carolina for the SEC? It's our only entry into that market and they are a growing University with a Medical school. With our brand they could easily be the 2nd best draw for football in the state of North Carolina. I figure it's either them or a second Florida school and therein lies a healthy but good debate as to which might be more productive.

Kansas State? They share a lot of disciplines with our land grants and it is another state.

Other reasons for all of this: Kansas State and East Carolina would broaden our lower middle giving the SEC's murderer's row a little bit of a break and they help keep the divisions more regional.

For the ACC it truly allows them to land more television sets without killing the academics.

For the Big 10 it solves many of their current divisional issues.

It sets up the semi finals for each conference and that in itself would be a nice chunk of change in tightening times.

It also sets up a P4 champs only model, while accommodating the playoff expansion internally via the conference championship format. That's a win win for the networks and conferences.

It provides for a 4th entrant to the conference series that would be the best remaining at large school. This keeps many more fan bases energized late into the season which is great for TV ratings and great for ticket sales.

It includes the next 8 in the deserving G5 applicants which cuts out those who would be best positioned to demand inclusion and sue if they didn't get it.

I think in the long run it is what would be best for the game.
(10-30-2016 05:21 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

I don't want to answer for X but in my opinion the ACC would take Cincinnati over UCONN. Cincinnati academics are still good plus they have better football tradition & would offer a new market while enhancing recruiting. Also Cincinnati reportedly finished second in the vote to replace Maryland. IIRC UCONN didn't even have enough support to bring them to a vote.

Gotcha, just seems weird leaving them out. 4 National championships in basketball the last 17 years, a state school very good academics. They already have a $70-$80 Million athletic budget from what I read in the UConn is whining or whatever thread lol.

I think if they get left out it's 100% back to the FCS or indy for their football and they will be moving their basketball to the Big East.

Cincy is decent program. I wouldn't mind seeing them get an invitation back to the party.
(10-30-2016 07:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 07:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote: [ -> ]Lol. SEC is not taking Baylor.

If you don't get Baylor, then you have to take West Virginia.........your choice.

Don't have to take anyone and ESPN would be foolish to try and force the issue.

Fox or CBS would love to get the next SEC contract
(10-30-2016 08:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 05:21 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

I don't want to answer for X but in my opinion the ACC would take Cincinnati over UCONN. Cincinnati academics are still good plus they have better football tradition & would offer a new market while enhancing recruiting. Also Cincinnati reportedly finished second in the vote to replace Maryland. IIRC UCONN didn't even have enough support to bring them to a vote.

Gotcha, just seems weird leaving them out. 4 National championships in basketball the last 17 years, a state school very good academics. They already have a $70-$80 Million athletic budget from what I read in the UConn is whining or whatever thread lol.

I think if they get left out it's 100% back to the FCS or indy for their football and they will be moving their basketball to the Big East.

Cincy is decent program. I wouldn't mind seeing them get an invitation back to the party.

Re: UConn
Don't forget the lawsuit, nobody around here has.
(10-31-2016 05:04 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 08:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 05:21 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

I don't want to answer for X but in my opinion the ACC would take Cincinnati over UCONN. Cincinnati academics are still good plus they have better football tradition & would offer a new market while enhancing recruiting. Also Cincinnati reportedly finished second in the vote to replace Maryland. IIRC UCONN didn't even have enough support to bring them to a vote.

Gotcha, just seems weird leaving them out. 4 National championships in basketball the last 17 years, a state school very good academics. They already have a $70-$80 Million athletic budget from what I read in the UConn is whining or whatever thread lol.

I think if they get left out it's 100% back to the FCS or indy for their football and they will be moving their basketball to the Big East.

Cincy is decent program. I wouldn't mind seeing them get an invitation back to the party.

Re: UConn
Don't forget the lawsuit, nobody around here has.

There's the bad blood from that & also UCONN is a newcomer to FBS football.
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Negative Ghost Rider. BYU in any formal association with the P12 is a non-starter.
(10-30-2016 08:11 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

While I think your assessment of the situation is pretty much on target, I don't believe for a moment that the SEC would take Baylor in this arrangement. West Virginia (though not viable as an individual candidate) makes much more sense for the SEC in terms of brand, content, and value than does Baylor.

I also don't see Missouri leaving unless it was their desire to do so.

I do think that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are the key to finally parsing the Big 12. And I do think Oklahoma is best suited for the SEC and that the Cowboys will fit in.

I also think that in the end, provided ESPN gets something out of it, that the PAC is the best place for Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U. and that B.Y.U. makes sense for the PAC as well under the conditions you lay out.

But here's what I think will likely happen if we go that route, which remains to be seen:

At 16

OU & OSU to the SEC. (Only if ESPN gets more of the Big 10 and therefore permits Texas to go there.)

Texas & Kansas to the Big 10.

Texas Tech and T.C.U. to the PAC.

West Virginia and Notre Dame to the ACC.

The networks thinking is to optimize markets by dividing Texas.


But what if ESPN insists upon keeping Texas?

Then Texas and Kansas head to the SEC.

Oklahoma and Connecticut head to the Big 10.

T.C.U. and Texas Tech head to the PAC with a third if the PAC sells ESPN a % of their network. If not they may not add anyone.

ACC?

**************************************************************

However it might behoove us to consider what it would look like if the Big 10 / SEC and ACC moved to 18 each:

It's an odd thing I haven't thrown into the mix so far (although I talked about the merits of 18 four years ago) but going to 18 makes this much more likely.

For instance the Big 10 if it landed Texas, Kansas, and Iowa State and could expand more to the East with Connecticut could solve some divisional problems:

Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Texas

Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State Rutgers



18 gives the PAC better penetration into Texas (if they wanted to do it):

Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Houston, T.C.U., Texas Tech

B.Y.U., California, Cal Los Angeles, Hawaii or New Mexico, San Diego State (or a Nevada school), Southern Cal

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Washington State



18 works for the ACC as well:

Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Baylor or Tulane, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest


Then the SEC could address some issues the by doing something like the following:

Arkansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

East Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee


Why Baylor or Tulane for the ACC? New Orleans is a solid market add for the network.
The ACC is the only conference that could accommodate Baylor, and New Orleans makes for a nice connection to Northeast Texas.

Why East Carolina for the SEC? It's our only entry into that market and they are a growing University with a Medical school. With our brand they could easily be the 2nd best draw for football in the state of North Carolina. I figure it's either them or a second Florida school and therein lies a healthy but good debate as to which might be more productive.

Kansas State? They share a lot of disciplines with our land grants and it is another state.

Other reasons for all of this: Kansas State and East Carolina would broaden our lower middle giving the SEC's murderer's row a little bit of a break and they help keep the divisions more regional.

For the ACC it truly allows them to land more television sets without killing the academics.

For the Big 10 it solves many of their current divisional issues.

It sets up the semi finals for each conference and that in itself would be a nice chunk of change in tightening times.

It also sets up a P4 champs only model, while accommodating the playoff expansion internally via the conference championship format. That's a win win for the networks and conferences.

It provides for a 4th entrant to the conference series that would be the best remaining at large school. This keeps many more fan bases energized late into the season which is great for TV ratings and great for ticket sales.

It includes the next 8 in the deserving G5 applicants which cuts out those who would be best positioned to demand inclusion and sue if they didn't get it.

I think in the long run it is what would be best for the game.

I like 4 leagues at 18.

I also like the idea of including certain schools that are marginal Power programs who could provide the benefits of security against litigation as well as adding to the pot of non-elite programs to bolster the records of the elite programs.

I also go back to an idea you suggested a while back whereby the networks would be interested in greater balance between the leagues to ensure maximum interest throughout the regular and postseasons.

If that's true and the PAC is willing to sell part of its network then maybe this...

PAC takes UNLV, Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State

(I don't see the PAC being willing to take BYU on political grounds. I pick UNLV because Las Vegas is about to get a new NFL stadium so the appetite for football and the facilities should increase. I think overall they would be more amenable to adding established Big 12 schools in new markets as opposed to MWC teams within their own footprint.)

B1G takes Texas, Kansas, UConn, Colorado State

(The B1G is going to have to suck it up and take a couple of schools they probably don't really want if they are going to score with schools like UT and KU. UConn and CSU are both good options from the G5 ranks and offer new markets)

ACC takes Cincinnati, West Virginia, Tulane, and get full membership from Notre Dame


SEC takes Oklahoma, Houston, UCF, ECU

(OU is the no brainer here. I don't see anyone being willing to take Baylor after everything that's happened. Meanwhile, schools like Houston are on the rise. The SEC can capture a greater percentage of DFW with OU and a greater percentage of Houston with UH. I'm betting the networks would rather invest in UH as opposed to BU anyway. I think UCF and ECU are solid additions in the East as well. The SEC doesn't really need powerhouses, but adding some viewership in FL and the Mid-Atlantic would be nice.)
(10-31-2016 06:09 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]SEC takes Oklahoma, Houston, UCF, ECU

(OU is the no brainer here. I don't see anyone being willing to take Baylor after everything that's happened. Meanwhile, schools like Houston are on the rise. The SEC can capture a greater percentage of DFW with OU and a greater percentage of Houston with UH. I'm betting the networks would rather invest in UH as opposed to BU anyway. I think UCF and ECU are solid additions in the East as well. The SEC doesn't really need powerhouses, but adding some viewership in FL and the Mid-Atlantic would be nice.)

That four is just awful. The SEC would add OU and sit.

Now, if there is some level of orchestration going on and having conferences of 18 full members is an exceptable outcome, why not try and move Texas and friends to the ACC and stock the SEC too.

SEC adds: Oklahoma, Kansas, WVU, Virginia Tech

ACC adds: Texas(Partial Member just like Notre Dame), Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TCU, ________
(10-31-2016 06:09 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 08:11 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

While I think your assessment of the situation is pretty much on target, I don't believe for a moment that the SEC would take Baylor in this arrangement. West Virginia (though not viable as an individual candidate) makes much more sense for the SEC in terms of brand, content, and value than does Baylor.

I also don't see Missouri leaving unless it was their desire to do so.

I do think that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are the key to finally parsing the Big 12. And I do think Oklahoma is best suited for the SEC and that the Cowboys will fit in.

I also think that in the end, provided ESPN gets something out of it, that the PAC is the best place for Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U. and that B.Y.U. makes sense for the PAC as well under the conditions you lay out.

But here's what I think will likely happen if we go that route, which remains to be seen:

At 16

OU & OSU to the SEC. (Only if ESPN gets more of the Big 10 and therefore permits Texas to go there.)

Texas & Kansas to the Big 10.

Texas Tech and T.C.U. to the PAC.

West Virginia and Notre Dame to the ACC.

The networks thinking is to optimize markets by dividing Texas.


But what if ESPN insists upon keeping Texas?

Then Texas and Kansas head to the SEC.

Oklahoma and Connecticut head to the Big 10.

T.C.U. and Texas Tech head to the PAC with a third if the PAC sells ESPN a % of their network. If not they may not add anyone.

ACC?

**************************************************************

However it might behoove us to consider what it would look like if the Big 10 / SEC and ACC moved to 18 each:

It's an odd thing I haven't thrown into the mix so far (although I talked about the merits of 18 four years ago) but going to 18 makes this much more likely.

For instance the Big 10 if it landed Texas, Kansas, and Iowa State and could expand more to the East with Connecticut could solve some divisional problems:

Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Texas

Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State Rutgers



18 gives the PAC better penetration into Texas (if they wanted to do it):

Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Houston, T.C.U., Texas Tech

B.Y.U., California, Cal Los Angeles, Hawaii or New Mexico, San Diego State (or a Nevada school), Southern Cal

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Washington State



18 works for the ACC as well:

Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Baylor or Tulane, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest


Then the SEC could address some issues the by doing something like the following:

Arkansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

East Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee


Why Baylor or Tulane for the ACC? New Orleans is a solid market add for the network.
The ACC is the only conference that could accommodate Baylor, and New Orleans makes for a nice connection to Northeast Texas.

Why East Carolina for the SEC? It's our only entry into that market and they are a growing University with a Medical school. With our brand they could easily be the 2nd best draw for football in the state of North Carolina. I figure it's either them or a second Florida school and therein lies a healthy but good debate as to which might be more productive.

Kansas State? They share a lot of disciplines with our land grants and it is another state.

Other reasons for all of this: Kansas State and East Carolina would broaden our lower middle giving the SEC's murderer's row a little bit of a break and they help keep the divisions more regional.

For the ACC it truly allows them to land more television sets without killing the academics.

For the Big 10 it solves many of their current divisional issues.

It sets up the semi finals for each conference and that in itself would be a nice chunk of change in tightening times.

It also sets up a P4 champs only model, while accommodating the playoff expansion internally via the conference championship format. That's a win win for the networks and conferences.

It provides for a 4th entrant to the conference series that would be the best remaining at large school. This keeps many more fan bases energized late into the season which is great for TV ratings and great for ticket sales.

It includes the next 8 in the deserving G5 applicants which cuts out those who would be best positioned to demand inclusion and sue if they didn't get it.

I think in the long run it is what would be best for the game.

I like 4 leagues at 18.

I also like the idea of including certain schools that are marginal Power programs who could provide the benefits of security against litigation as well as adding to the pot of non-elite programs to bolster the records of the elite programs.

I also go back to an idea you suggested a while back whereby the networks would be interested in greater balance between the leagues to ensure maximum interest throughout the regular and postseasons.

If that's true and the PAC is willing to sell part of its network then maybe this...

PAC takes UNLV, Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State

(I don't see the PAC being willing to take BYU on political grounds. I pick UNLV because Las Vegas is about to get a new NFL stadium so the appetite for football and the facilities should increase. I think overall they would be more amenable to adding established Big 12 schools in new markets as opposed to MWC teams within their own footprint.)

B1G takes Texas, Kansas, UConn, Colorado State

(The B1G is going to have to suck it up and take a couple of schools they probably don't really want if they are going to score with schools like UT and KU. UConn and CSU are both good options from the G5 ranks and offer new markets)

ACC takes Cincinnati, West Virginia, Tulane, and get full membership from Notre Dame


SEC takes Oklahoma, Houston, UCF, ECU

(OU is the no brainer here. I don't see anyone being willing to take Baylor after everything that's happened. Meanwhile, schools like Houston are on the rise. The SEC can capture a greater percentage of DFW with OU and a greater percentage of Houston with UH. I'm betting the networks would rather invest in UH as opposed to BU anyway. I think UCF and ECU are solid additions in the East as well. The SEC doesn't really need powerhouses, but adding some viewership in FL and the Mid-Atlantic would be nice.)

ESPN has lengthy contracts with the ACC and SEC. The additional annual $100+ Million payout to each conference with four additional members is a non starter. The economics of 18 just does not add up.
Adding 1 to get to 15 and changing the rules is a win for our media partners and in the long run a win for every P4 school too.
(10-31-2016 05:04 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 08:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 05:21 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 03:59 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2016 01:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]1) The Big 12 process was not a wasted exercise in that it did show everyone the schools that have value in expansion.
2) Oklahoma the school is not ready to be the lead dog in any conference.
3) The SEC is all about content.
4) The B1G and now the ACC are all about market.
5) The PAC needs both and is holding out for Texas (the school).
6) The networks want this stuff cleaned up ASAP and are not willing to let this carry on for even another 8 years.
7) The Big 12 is toast.


The solution:
(Do not shoot the messenger)

PAC
Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU (football only)

B1G
Maryland, Rutgers, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Wisc., Minn., Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, Kansas, Missouri

SEC
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn., Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss. State, A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor.

ACC
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, VT, Carolina, Dook, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Cincinnati.


Out:
Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia.


Bankable.

Would the ACC pick Cincy over UConn?

UConn academics and basketball are a perfect match. East coast school as well.

I don't want to answer for X but in my opinion the ACC would take Cincinnati over UCONN. Cincinnati academics are still good plus they have better football tradition & would offer a new market while enhancing recruiting. Also Cincinnati reportedly finished second in the vote to replace Maryland. IIRC UCONN didn't even have enough support to bring them to a vote.

Gotcha, just seems weird leaving them out. 4 National championships in basketball the last 17 years, a state school very good academics. They already have a $70-$80 Million athletic budget from what I read in the UConn is whining or whatever thread lol.

I think if they get left out it's 100% back to the FCS or indy for their football and they will be moving their basketball to the Big East.

Cincy is decent program. I wouldn't mind seeing them get an invitation back to the party.

Re: UConn
Don't forget the lawsuit, nobody around here has.

But the ACC took Pitt. They were involved in the lawsuit as much as anyone else (Va Tech included until the Governor got them into the ACC).

I think the lawsuit could be forgotten if that was the only barrier for UConn.
(10-31-2016 11:30 AM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ]Negative Ghost Rider. BYU in any formal association with the P12 is a non-starter.

I'm not saying that it will happen, but a football only membership with BYU would be an intelligent business decision. And, you could stack the schedule to have BYU play the Texas schools and Utah annually. That would allow the legacy PAC schools to continue to play each other more frequently.

To leave the Olympic sports out allows the PAC to avoid much of the political consternation and the Sunday play issue.

The only PAC school that BYU hasn't played recently or with whom BYU doesn't have a future football games contract is Colorado. From 2012 through 2022, there have been or will be 3 or 4 PAC schools on the BYU football schedule most years.

Plus, there have been exclusive BYU v. PAC bowl games in 2013 (Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl - v. Washington) and 2015 (Las Vegas Bowl - v. Utah). (not to mention the string of 5 BYU v. PAC bowls in Las Vegas from 2005 to 2009)

BYU sold 20K tickets for the UCLA game in Pasadena last year. BYU sold 30K tickets for the Arizona game in Glendale this year. The BYU-Utah game on FOX is among the best TV ratings for a PAC home game this year (behind Texas-Cal, USC-Stanford, Stanford-UCLA, Washington-Oregon, WSU-Stanford). It outperformed Utah-UCLA, USC-Arizona, Washington-Utah, and every other PAC home game.

BYU-Arizona in September had the second best ever rating for the late Saturday night slot on FS1. The BYU-UCLA 2015 game is #1.
(10-31-2016 06:09 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]PAC takes UNLV, Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State

(I don't see the PAC being willing to take BYU on political grounds. I pick UNLV because Las Vegas is about to get a new NFL stadium so the appetite for football and the facilities should increase. I think overall they would be more amenable to adding established Big 12 schools in new markets as opposed to MWC teams within their own footprint.)

Las Vegas' football appetite will be mostly quenched by the Raiders.

BYU fans routinely outnumbered UNLV fans for MWC games at Sam Boyd Stadium. We refer to Sam Boyd as "LES South." (LES = Lavell Edwards Stadium).

The PAC's better plan would be to take BYU and some Central time zone schools then have an annual PAC kickoff classic type game in the Las Vegas stadium and create a new Las Vegas Bowl game. Perhaps have 1 or 2 PAC conference games in Las Vegas each year.

PAC would be better served with USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, BYU, and Arizona playing in Las Vegas than adding UNLV.
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