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The day of reckoning has arrived and has left with a whimper.

The Big 12 will not expand

(10-17-2016 08:03 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]The day of reckoning has arrived and has left with a whimper.

The Big 12 will not expand

Surprise! Surprise! Nothing has changed since 2010. Texas and OU want to be King and Prince but the want to keep their options open too. I stood by that in 2010-2 and I stand by it now. This whole charade was never viable, not even from its inception.

(10-17-2016 08:06 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 08:03 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]The day of reckoning has arrived and has left with a whimper.

The Big 12 will not expand

Surprise! Surprise! Nothing has changed since 2010. Texas and OU want to be King and Prince but the want to keep their options open too. I stood by that in 2010-2 and I stand by it now. This whole charade was never viable, not even from its inception.

I guess I'm just floored by the public way they handled all this.

I haven't expected them to expand for a while, but there are better ways to do these things.

This was as much about distracting the media from the Baylor scandal (and that the Big 12 has done absolutely nothing to punish them or even so much as verbally reprimand them) as it was about trying to bluff TV into giving them more money for nothing.

At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

(10-17-2016 09:11 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]This was as much about distracting the media from the Baylor scandal (and that the Big 12 has done absolutely nothing to punish them or even so much as verbally reprimand them) as it was about trying to bluff TV into giving them more money for nothing.

I thought it was a cash grab as well. Especially since this whole fiasco started after the ACC network was announced. The question I have is why engage in this entire charade so publicly? Every member looks bad and to outright display such disharmony is confirmation that the B12 is a zombie conference. The only thing holding it together is a TV contract.

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

But they already knew that: BYU and members of the AAC and MWC. There was no need for the kabuki theater.

(10-18-2016 03:14 AM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:11 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]This was as much about distracting the media from the Baylor scandal (and that the Big 12 has done absolutely nothing to punish them or even so much as verbally reprimand them) as it was about trying to bluff TV into giving them more money for nothing.

I thought it was a cash grab as well. Especially since this whole fiasco started after the ACC network was announced. The question I have is why engage in this entire charade so publicly? Every member looks bad and to outright display such disharmony is confirmation that the B12 is a zombie conference. The only thing holding it together is a TV contract.

That was the "distract the media from spending all off season from asking us why we aren't punishing Baylor for enabling mass rape of coeds on its campus by football players" part of the equation. REAL expansion is never done that way in public.

And sadly it worked pretty effectively

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

(10-18-2016 03:45 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

The common denominator between the ACC expansion and the Big 12's choices is only one, ESPN. Therefore it might easily be assumed that Louisville's Jurich knew ahead of time that the ACC was a viable possibility for the Cardinals.

(10-18-2016 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 03:45 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

The common denominator between the ACC expansion and the Big 12's choices is only one, ESPN. Therefore it might easily be assumed that Louisville's Jurich knew ahead of time that the ACC was a viable possibility for the Cardinals.

But the B12 expansion thought process isn't about improving the league. After the delusions of an ACC raid died, the schools were only interested in doing the bare minimum to get continued stays of execution. That's why I ultimately think UL wasn't considered, it would have made the conference viable in a way that limited to options of UT and OU.

(10-18-2016 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 03:45 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

The common denominator between the ACC expansion and the Big 12's choices is only one, ESPN. Therefore it might easily be assumed that Louisville's Jurich knew ahead of time that the ACC was a viable possibility for the Cardinals.

If you recall, WVU was ready to sue to get out of the Big East within 10 months instead of the 27 months required, Louisville wasn't. The Big 12 absolutely had to have either WVU or UL invited in October to start July 1 to keep the TV contract in tact.

That was the larger factor IMO (I don't have any proof to back that up though). UL probably knew they were on the short list for ACC expansion if it occurred, but I don't think anyone saw the Big 10 expanding with Maryland, creating an opening.

(10-18-2016 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 03:45 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2016 09:37 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]At first, I thought it was a lure tactic. Trying to get a couple of current P5 programs to switch conferences. Now I think it is nothing more than a ploy to dissolve the conference in the future. The Big 12 members got to actually see who wants to join and what they offer. This is important information for the programs not named Oklahoma or Texas.

Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

The common denominator between the ACC expansion and the Big 12's choices is only one, ESPN. Therefore it might easily be assumed that Louisville's Jurich knew ahead of time that the ACC was a viable possibility for the Cardinals.

Not to diss the Cardinals too much but up until their invite the ACC really took academics very seriously. They stuck their nose up at WVU and claimed it was a reason they couldn't join the ACC. That all changed once the Cardinals joined. UL academics makes WVU's look first class. I think the ACC still takes academics seriously but I think now a days they feel like athletics trump academics.

Maybe they did know an invite was coming. I just feel like from a fan perspective when you see the ACC turn down WVU in the past for academics you wouldn't feel great about UL's chances.

(10-19-2016 11:19 PM)CyclonePower Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 03:45 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:42 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-18-2016 01:23 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]Aren't you glad our two schools are no longer a part of this train wreck? I was so amused a few years ago when the Big XII was coaxing the Razorbacks to leave the SEC for the Big XII. That was probably the funniest story in CFB. Like that would happen. The Big XII has no viable candidates for expansion now, save maybe BYU which has a national following, and the Big XII probably ruled them out for political correctness. Not inviting Louisville was a monumental mistake.

Agreed on UL, massive miss there by the Big 12. UL, WVU, and Cincy all along with TCU to get back to 12 would of been a strong move.

It may be stepping a bit into conspiracy theory territory, as well as perhaps having some timelines garbled, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Big 12 just passed on Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if backdoor channel discussions had been taking place between Louisville and the ACC, and that Louisville didn't perhaps reject Big 12 overtures on the gamble that they'd end up there instead (as well as suspecting that Missouri would be following aTm out the door - seems like those events somewhat overlapped, but perhaps my memory is just foggy). The Big 12 may have been a better option than the Big East, but I'm not surprised that Louisville feels that the ACC is a better fit.

The common denominator between the ACC expansion and the Big 12's choices is only one, ESPN. Therefore it might easily be assumed that Louisville's Jurich knew ahead of time that the ACC was a viable possibility for the Cardinals.

Not to diss the Cardinals too much but up until their invite the ACC really took academics very seriously. They stuck their nose up at WVU and claimed it was a reason they couldn't join the ACC. That all changed once the Cardinals joined. UL academics makes WVU's look first class. I think the ACC still takes academics seriously but I think now a days they feel like athletics trump academics.

Maybe they did know an invite was coming. I just feel like from a fan perspective when you see the ACC turn down WVU in the past for academics you wouldn't feel great about UL's chances.

At the point that Maryland left the ACC and a replacement was needed, there were really only two options, UL and UConn.

UConn fit the profile academically and brought strong hoops but virtually no football presence (and the ACC already had weak Syracuse and BC football to deal with). UL brought football, basketball but was light on the academics. There was rumbling that FSU and Clemson weren't happy about compromising football -- at that point, the rest of the conference put academics aside and invited UL.

Would the ACC do this again for WVU? It probably depends on the circumstances, but I suspect that the ACC, with Notre Dame half in, won't have to worry about shoring up football or making themselves attractive for TV at that point, and could just simply pass on more expansion, especially if Texas has gone west and Oklahoma is in the Big 10. Kansas would be just as attractive, perhaps.

As much as I would love to give Jurich credit I don't think he knew that a spot in the ACC was about to open up. At least not with enough certainty to pass on the B12. WV had the better football tradition & were willing to make the jump immediately. As for Louisville making WV academics look first class, that's really stretching it since Louisville was (is?) actually ranked higher than WV in the USNWR rankings at the time.

The word is that Jurich found out about Maryland leaving the ACC from Yahoo's Pat Forde. Forde worked at the Courier Journal here in Louisville. UCONN was said to be the front runner by ESPN but FSU & Clemson wanted a better football add. Cincinnati actually was second when the ACC voted. Louisville was disappointed when the B12 passed on our invite but ultimately things worked out for the best.

The main hurdle that WV would have to clear for ACC membership is their admittance standards. The Carolina & Virginia schools feel that their lower standards would be to big of a disadvantage for them.

(10-21-2016 08:22 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]As much as I would love to give Jurich credit I don't think he knew that a spot in the ACC was about to open up. At least not with enough certainty to pass on the B12. WV had the better football tradition & were willing to make the jump immediately. As for Louisville making WV academics look first class, that's really stretching it since Louisville was (is?) actually ranked higher than WV in the USNWR rankings at the time.

The word is that Jurich found out about Maryland leaving the ACC from Yahoo's Pat Forde. Forde worked at the Courier Journal here in Louisville. UCONN was said to be the front runner by ESPN but FSU & Clemson wanted a better football add. Cincinnati actually was second when the ACC voted. Louisville was disappointed when the B12 passed on our invite but ultimately things worked out for the best.

The main hurdle that WV would have to clear for ACC membership is their admittance standards. The Carolina & Virginia schools feel that their lower standards would be to big of a disadvantage for them.

Lenville, wake up and smell the coffee! Who owns 100% of the ACC? They knew. At least they knew enough at that time to have back ups already planned should a defection happen. But I think they knew already. They probably had back door conversations with Chapel Hill and the Football First schools and realized that Louisville was the only one without past history that could appease both parties in the conference that the mouse had a 100% stake in.

And btw when your Cards made it into the ACC, your academics were a wash with West Virginia. In fact the Eers may have had more in research revenue.

(10-21-2016 08:43 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2016 08:22 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ]As much as I would love to give Jurich credit I don't think he knew that a spot in the ACC was about to open up. At least not with enough certainty to pass on the B12. WV had the better football tradition & were willing to make the jump immediately. As for Louisville making WV academics look first class, that's really stretching it since Louisville was (is?) actually ranked higher than WV in the USNWR rankings at the time.

The word is that Jurich found out about Maryland leaving the ACC from Yahoo's Pat Forde. Forde worked at the Courier Journal here in Louisville. UCONN was said to be the front runner by ESPN but FSU & Clemson wanted a better football add. Cincinnati actually was second when the ACC voted. Louisville was disappointed when the B12 passed on our invite but ultimately things worked out for the best.

The main hurdle that WV would have to clear for ACC membership is their admittance standards. The Carolina & Virginia schools feel that their lower standards would be to big of a disadvantage for them.

Lenville, wake up and smell the coffee! Who owns 100% of the ACC? They knew. At least they knew enough at that time to have back ups already planned should a defection happen. But I think they knew already. They probably had back door conversations with Chapel Hill and the Football First schools and realized that Louisville was the only one without past history that could appease both parties in the conference that the mouse had a 100% stake in.

And btw when your Cards made it into the ACC, your academics were a wash with West Virginia. In fact the Eers may have had more in research revenue.

They probably knew that a backup plan existed but you don't pass up a sure thing for a possibility. ESPN was also pushing UCONN if you remember & the B12 was perceived to be the more stable conference at the time. Why do you think that the SEC partnered with the B12 on the Sugar Bowl?

Correct on the academics. However someone else said that Louisville academics made WV's "look first class". That is inaccurate.

Why does Pittsburgh's conversation with the Big 12 keep being overlooked? Oliver Luck actually confirmed it. It was why he thought WVU had a chance to join the Big 12. Btw, that convo Pitt had with the Big 12 also involved UofL as a member. I think Jurich was sure the Big 12 was going to implode so opted out of the initial invite but through Pitt and Cuse new the ACC was interested in us. Once Pitt moved with Cuse with no communication with us, Jurich knew we had to get out of the BE. Would not be surprised if BE basketball connections weren't having convos as well.
We were invited first and the presumptive add to the Big 12 through Pitt. Once things got hairy(thank you Pitt) we had to fight for the Big12 invite knowing the conference still wasn't totally secure. We lost that fight with WVU but I believe we also knew we had a real shot at the ACC and fought that fight knowing another battle would be waged even if we got the Big 12 membership.

It very well could be that Pitt valued our membership and partnership more than they did/do WVU's.