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Full Version: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
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I have nothing against either coach. They run clean programs where their players are good students and good citizens and each coach does a nice job being involved in the community. There are schools where that, along with an occasional run at a championship, would be enough.

I would just like to know what the standards at UT are?

Cullop was at Evansville for 8 years and made it to the WNIT once. In seven full seasons at UT she has been to the WNIT a number of times and won it once. Still, in 15 years she has never made it to the NCAA Tournament.

Coach K was at Green Bay for 8 seasons and never made it to the NIT. In four full seasons at UT he has been to the NIT once. Twelve years as a head DI coach and no NCAA appearances.

My opinion is that if a coach doesn't get to the NCAA Tournament within his first five years, the chances diminish greatly that he/she ever will.

I'd like to hear the opinions of other posters.
I've thought this. As much as they post on social media about tradition and history, I have to ask - what history, what tradition? The tradition of hoping and praying every March that we might get a 7 seed to the NIT???

Our ladies have won the consolation tournament one time, and we haven't even been close to that level of play since. Our men... well.. We're still clinging to a victory over Iowa that predates myself and anyone currently aged 36. Well, that, and the OSU win with Stempin, which we parlayed into. into... into... But, at least TK's not Cross!
The men's team is overachieving. Recruiting that brings in teams like the last few years versus this years seems jeckle and hyde. I'm still trying to figure out how we got Sanford or more accurately, why Purdue didn't go after him. He's their typical. They've come to Ohio the last few years and grabbed players without his production or potential.

Women team, been discussion for several years now on the recruiting. My opinion was they were fine on talent, maybe aiming a little low but would develop the players. A couple missteps on personality, one I thought obvious before the offer but hey. :shrug: Development doesn't seem as strong. Changes at the assistant level?

I can't see reason to be unhappy with either coach as long as they enjoy and aren't complacent, we'll be fine. Both will provide consistent winners but I see Coach K as having the better chance at MACC, there has been some excellent recruiting and development. Coach C I think struck gold with the first overseas recruit and maybe is putting too much bank on that instead of challenging Dayton and Xavier for recruits.
I think both coaches are doing well with the talent they have. Our men's team was loaded the last two years. In my opinion, the only reason why we didn't go further was due to egos and not enough basketballs to go around. Not enough team play. They did well, but underachieved IMO. It is tough role for any coach when you have 5 guys of equally good talent that like to get their shots, but not necessarily any of them with elite NBA level talent like a power conference school. But, we are overachieving this year, and this says a lot about our coach (and a very good and improved Nathan Boothe!).

It is hard to go to the NCAA tourney, or even the NIT, as a MAC school. There are 347 D1 Basketball programs. That means only about 28% have a chance to play in the postseason (less than 1 in 5 make it to the NCAA tourney). It is so much more competitive than football, and since there are only 5-8 players taking most of the minutes on each team, the best players can make more of an impact than in football. The elite players (and coaches) are stacked on the teams from the power conferences, so it takes a lot for a MAC or a Horizon school to make it to the tournaments. We are the Rockets, we are a MAC school...just my 0.02.
Not counting this current season, I think the next 2 seasons are going to be key for both coaches. Losing seasons, particularly in the MAC, would be problematic for them. How well the current freshmen develop on both squads, combined with what level of recruits we get these next 2 classes, will likely dictate their fates.
(01-23-2016 07:34 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]I have nothing against either coach. They run clean programs where their players are good students and good citizens and each coach does a nice job being involved in the community. There are schools where that, along with an occasional run at a championship, would be enough.

I would just like to know what the standards at UT are?

Cullop was at Evansville for 8 years and made it to the WNIT once. In seven full seasons at UT she has been to the WNIT a number of times and won it once. Still, in 15 years she has never made it to the NCAA Tournament.

Coach K was at Green Bay for 8 seasons and never made it to the NIT. In four full seasons at UT he has been to the NIT once. Twelve years as a head DI coach and no NCAA appearances.

My opinion is that if a coach doesn't get to the NCAA Tournament within his first five years, the chances diminish greatly that he/she ever will.

I'd like to hear the opinions of other posters.

I don't know if they have maxed out or not, but I suspect that their past performances have earned them enough credit to withstand several years of OK-but-not-Great type teams as they try to get back to (or near) the top of the heap---that is, so long as they avoid any really bad near the cellar type years (which I don't see in the cards). So long as they don't completely crash and burn, I think will be given ample opportunities to climb back to near the top of the conference.

Stan had some good teams but he never got them to the NCAA and I don't think he was ever under too much pressure on that point----Although the University never came out and directly said it, my (un-informed) opinion, is that Stan and Stutz were both pushed out primarily because the University wanted to be pro-active to minimize any NCAA punishment resulting from the point shaving debacle and, if so, I think that their strategy was fairly successful. Of course, unlike Stan and the BB program, Stutz had let the FB program sink to near the bottom of the conference so the point shaving may have given the university just the excuse it needed to ease out Stutz who was a popular coach and former UT player.

Besides, in my opinion, MOB has a lot more patience with his coaches than, for example, Al Bohl did.
I think Coach c is underachieving a bunch. She is all after the team when they don't play D and if you screw up on D you come out. Tonight she didn't start Reecher and Monakana because they started last Game with 2 fouls in the first qtr. Well Monakana was the only one getting points tonight and was playing killer D and out she comes. Play the hot hand for goodness sake. B had a lot of turnovers and very few points and she left Her in. Prinz and Bravo-Harriet where 1 for 15 and still playing. I sure would have tried some more players like Rasmussen crap even Evans may have done better. When a player is 5 of 33 in four or five games, why is she still on the floor. Our guards were 5 of 33 today so defense is not the only thing to work on. Put Dorr, Rasmussen, and Evens in cause they could not have been any worse. Just the guards had 15 turnovers. B Harris had 5 turnovers with 0 assists as a Senior for goodness sake. The team has been averaging about 20 turnovers the last three games. These are D1 recruits so something has to fall on coaching I think. They even had more fans than EMU and couldn't produce. It's either chemistry or coaches. Reecher McIntrye and Monakana were 11 of 21 so start with them and add Harris and start with anyone else and if they miss three shots try someone else. We should be playing two posts at all times as we have the height and talent to do it plus Rasmussen is a very good sub for the post. The guards are just not doing it
NFW
I thought UT came out a little flat whereas EMU came out fully focused with a lot of energy, a lot of athleticism, a lot a speed, a lot of quickness and a lot of in your face defense and I think all that effort got into the Rockets' heads a little bit and they got a bit rattled and were playing without a lot of composure until about half way thru the second quarter after EMU had built up a 20 point lead. At that point EMU got a bit careless or maybe overconfident and the Rocket regrouped and mounted a rally that carried over to the second half and picked up steam starting the third quarter.

The critical stretch IMO came in the 4th quarter when the Rockets had cut the lead to about 6 and seemed to have the momentum. At that point on several successive key possessions EMU simply kept getting offensive boards each possession until a shot would finally fall for them and to make matters worse the Rockets had a few turnovers on their possessions during this same time thus falling further behind once again. Together that sealed the Rocket's fate. It was as if EMU wanted the game more than the Rockets and they just went out and took it.

I am afraid that while the Rockets brought the fans, it was EMU that brought their game.
Aww you are so positive, but the team shot 31% from the floor 13% from three and 40% from freethrow. They had 23 turnovers and were out rebounded 50-34. Printz, Capotosto and Bravo-Harriet were 2 for 23. Harris was 3 for 8 so the four main guards were 5 for 31. You are putting a nice coating of lipstick on that pig but it is still a very very ugly pig.
Oh yeh Printz, Harris, capotosto and bravo-Harriet average 27 mins apiece averaging 15% shooting. McIntyre, Reeker and monakana averaged 22 mins but shot 11 for 22 or 50% so does anyone see something odd here besides me???
(01-24-2016 01:11 AM)flying dutchman Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeh Printz, Harris, capotosto and bravo-Harriet average 27 mins apiece averaging 15% shooting. McIntyre, Reeker and monakana averaged 22 mins but shot 11 for 22 or 50% so does anyone see something odd here besides me???

One game snapshot is really pretty meaningless. Moreover, that's 3 bigs dividing minutes at two spots: they weren't going to get minutes at ball handling slots. Can you imagine Monakana or Reecher bringing the ball up? Pretty much everybody stunk, maybe McIntyre exceeding expectations. I don't have much faith in other bench players as the answer. Boyd is clearly uncomfortable shooting and Rassmussen has never demonstrated much offense. I don't think Dorr is physically ready for minutes. Is Kessler still out for the concussion?
I'm willing to give Coach K until these freshmen are seniors. If by the end of the '18/19 season we still have no NCAA appearance then goodbye Coach K

As for Cullop, I'd start looking for her replacement. Either a big time assistant from a prominent school or a head coach who has gotten to the tournament

But O'Brien is much more patient than I am so I'm willing to wade it out. I just don't think the women's program is going anywhere tournament wise under Cullop. Sure we might draw well and win 20 games some seasons but the goal has to be NCAA tourney appearances or what's the point...
I have a restricted base to comment on, but I do not see the MBB team advancing beyond getting to the MAC tourney and maybe making it to the semis before bowing out. There will be no NCAA appearance under coach K. We see other programs pass us by all the time. He looks a lot better than I suspect he is as a coach because he got to follow Cross and being just a little compentent meant he would improve the program a lot. Having a couple of transfers come with him helped a lot as well.

As I've said before, I have not been particularly enamored with the job O'Brien has done in getting coaches. There are a lot of other coaches that have done better with less talent. At least we have not fallen completely off the landscape like Miami, Oh has I both football and basketball. I love it that they are horrid.
Although I have never been a big fan of Coach K, I can't see him being on the chopping block at this point. The program improved tremendously under his guidance. He has earned at least a couple year grace period before anyone talks about firing him.

Cullop is now in year three of mediocrity, which seems unacceptable given the great fan support. I imagine that the community interest has got to be an advantage for Cullop in recruiting, so expectations should be high for the women's program. I think that if the women's team is not near the top of the conference by next year, then O'Brien should find a new coach.
MAC Total Athletic Expenses(Previous year-USA Today):

Akron $32,050,686
Buffalo $31,134,139
WMU $30,113,764
EMU $30,081,523
CMU $29,281,777
Miami U $28,712,466
Ohio U $27,298,719
Toledo $26,304,331
NIU $26,130,115
BSU $25,854,450
Kent State $24,392,221
BGSU $23,306,965
(01-24-2016 06:42 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-24-2016 01:11 AM)flying dutchman Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeh Printz, Harris, capotosto and bravo-Harriet average 27 mins apiece averaging 15% shooting. McIntyre, Reeker and monakana averaged 22 mins but shot 11 for 22 or 50% so does anyone see something odd here besides me???

One game snapshot is really pretty meaningless. Moreover, that's 3 bigs dividing minutes at two spots: they weren't going to get minutes at ball handling slots. Can you imagine Monakana or Reecher bringing the ball up? Pretty much everybody stunk, maybe McIntyre exceeding expectations. I don't have much faith in other bench players as the answer. Boyd is clearly uncomfortable shooting and Rassmussen has never demonstrated much offense. I don't think Dorr is physically ready for minutes. Is Kessler still out for the concussion?
Yes. Nancy is still recovering from a concussion she got in practice.
(01-24-2016 09:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: [ -> ]Cullop is now in year three of mediocrity, which seems unacceptable given the great fan support. I imagine that the community interest has got to be an advantage for Cullop in recruiting, so expectations should be high for the women's program. I think that if the women's team is not near the top of the conference by next year, then O'Brien should find a new coach.

Be careful, such bold thoughts as you express are considered lunatic heresy and are most offensive in some circles so you are putting youself in danger of bringing down upon your head the full wrath of the Kool Aid crowd------you know, those zealots who think that while the Pope may be right most of the time, only Coach C. is infallible every day in every way.

Oops, never mind, you're safe. I forgot that in the face of adversity, the Kool Aid crowd, like the summertime soldier and the sunshine patriot are nowhere to be found.
(01-24-2016 10:38 AM)T-Town Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-24-2016 09:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: [ -> ]Cullop is now in year three of mediocrity, which seems unacceptable given the great fan support. I imagine that the community interest has got to be an advantage for Cullop in recruiting, so expectations should be high for the women's program. I think that if the women's team is not near the top of the conference by next year, then O'Brien should find a new coach.

Be careful, such bold thoughts as you express are considered lunatic heresy and are most offensive in some circles so you are putting youself in danger of bringing down upon your head the full wrath of the Kool Aid crowd------you know, those zealots who think that while the Pope may be right most of the time, only Coach C. is infallible every day in every way.

Oops, never mind, you're safe. I forgot that in the face of adversity, the Kool Aid crowd, like the summertime soldier and the sunshine patriot are nowhere to be found.

I may be talking to the tin-foil hat crowd but who exactly is in this kool-aid crowd of which you speak? I don't recall seeing anything from them on this message board. Are they hiding elsewhere?
I have watched the majority of Coach K's games at Toledo, either in person or on TV/computer, and I have been pleased with the job he has done. Yes, it it is true that there was nowhere to go but up after Cross took the program to the bottom of college basketball. There was no guarantee, however, that the coach who replaced Cross would be able to make Toledo into a championship contender. They could have stayed near the bottom or just been around .500, but in four years, they finished tied for first in the conference and were one game away from the NCAA Tournament. Yes, I know, last year they underachieved, but they still had a solid season and were in contention for the championship.

Believe me, I know that the ultimate goal is winning the MAC Tournament and getting to the Big Dance. I have to say that I think winning the regular season championship is a more impressive accomplishment than winning a 3 day tournament. I know the regular season championship doesn't have the reward that the MAC Tournament does, but finishing with the best record after an 18 game grind against every team in your conference is worthy of praise, in my opinion.
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