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I. The January Meeting

Before any future realignment can be discussed seriously the schools need to know a few things:

1. Will there be an upper division or breakaway?
If there is, either accompanied by the ability to create their own rules, or structure, then multiple divisions become possible. This is crucial since adding more teams complicates a structure where divisions are limited to just two. At 14 you can still have, however unwieldy, two divisions. At 16 it means you seldom play schools from the other division. The "pod" system is the only practical way around this complication. So, the Big 10, SEC, and ACC won't add additional teams until this obstacle to structural development is removed.

2. If there is a breakaway, or upper division, will the emphasis switch to internal playoff structures with the possibility of multiple divisions within a conference?
I think so. And by doing so the objections that some schools have to having too many quality programs in a conference will be partially overcome. A Texas or Oklahoma wouldn't be competing with 15 other schools for a championship season. They would be competing essentially against 5. They would have a round robin with the other 3 teams of their division. Win your division and you are in a 4 team conference championship for the conference title. That means outside of your division you only "have to beat" more out of division teams than your division mates, and then two more in the playoff. So, in essence you are competing against the three in your division and the two you have to face in the playoffs, even though you play a total of 9 conference games (which is no more than Texas and Oklahoma face now).

Once some kind of on the field way of determining the National contenders is decided there will be no need of further cupcake games on the schedule. The route to victory will be basically laid out the same for everyone and the networks will slobber over the possibility of only having upper tier matches for the entire schedule.

II. The Reality of Finances

1. Conference Networks
The reality is that the Big 10 and SEC are only going to get wealthier.
The PAC whether their market develops or not is too isolated to be a likely expansion target.
Without networks the Big 12 and ACC will continue to be at a disadvantage. But at least the ACC has ESPN as a mediator between themselves and the SEC which lends them a good deal of security.
The Big 12 has no such arrangement.

Texas and Oklahoma make enough money that they don't have to go elsewhere. But, watching others pull even with them that otherwise would never have been able to do so will cause them some real concern. And, their concern over the lack of compelling conference scheduling will continue to bite into attendance and interest even though it is far from epidemic proportions at this time. They will long for the relevance of old rivals and I think that they will want to make moves when the GOR has reached a point of acceptable loss with a move.

I look for this to happen within 3 to 5 years, or sooner if they can find homes for the other schools.

So realignment is not going to happen until the best product is on the market again. Then the PAC, SEC, and Big 10 will vie for the membership of Oklahoma, Texas, and Kansas. And to a lesser degree some will seek Oklahoma State and West Virginia.

The initial move will be to 16 members, but I don't think it will be over at that point.

III. Numbers and Legalities

1. Back to the Upper Tier or Breakaway and Structure

It is possible that the need for more schools will be eliminated with the first step. Assume for a moment that an upper division is formed or a breakaway occurs. With the addition of stipends, minimum number of required sports to be offered, a minimum athletic endowment to be required, and minimum standards in facilities required, it is likely that some present P5 schools, though not many, will opt out. If seven schools opt out then further realignment may not be necessary. And if just three or four opt out it's possible that a 4 x 16 model is all that will be required.

Waiting to see who and how many opt out is also holding up realignment. What if Wake Forest, Boston College, or Purdue say no? The commissioners need to know how many spots they have open before they form their strategies about which schools to seek.

If nobody opts out then I think we will eventually move to 72. Cincinnati, Connecticut, Brigham Young, South Florida, Central Florida, Nevada, East Carolina, San Diego State, and Fresno State are just some of the schools that might be able or willing to meet the requirements set for the upper tier. Endowment may weed a few, minimum attendance requirements (if set) may cut a few more out, but in the end there are going to be a handful of schools who will meet all of the entrance requirements and demand inclusion. If they are omitted legal action will follow. To be bullet proof so to speak, the upper tier will have to have some established avenue for inclusion. By moving to 72 they will diminish those who could make a claim and establish a better de facto boundary.

2. Repercussions of moving to 18
For the most part there aren't any. A three division of 6 schools system would have some benefits over the 4 x 4 divisions system. The negative would be in the planning phase. If there was a real chance that the conferences may have to go to 18 to insulate themselves from a lower division in qualifications then moving to 18 needs to be incorporated in the plans to get to 16. While schools like Kansas State don't appear to offer the SEC much now, if we were going to 18 I would much rather have them than some of the other options that may be remaining if everyone goes to 16 first and then pauses before going to 18.

How you add, where you add, and how you plan your divisions would be better executed once we know whether or not we are stopping at 16 or going to 18. For instance if we knew we might be going to 18 and the ACC knew for sure Texas was not coming would they take Cincinnati, Connecticut and West Virginia to add greater continuity to their footprint, or would they opt to try for a Western grouping if they knew already that Wake Forest had opted out? I use this as a hypothetical to show that until we know who is making the jump to the upper tier and how many more want in we have no idea of what needs to be done to make further realignment cohesive and coherent.

I for one would rather see the SEC (if it looked like 18 was the number) take 4 Big 12 schools. Ideally in that circumstance, another Texas team, a Kansas Team, an Oklahoma Team, and West Virginia would make some sense. (Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, West Virginia) would be the sweep that truly established us as the most hated conference. But far more likely would be a Texas school, the two Oklahoma's and someone else.

But use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. For now everything is on hold. Whether there is an upper tier or not, whether we have control over rules and structure or not, and what the minimum requirements will be for inclusion if we have what we are seeking, all will determine who and how many we pursue for the completion of realignment.

When the AD's say there will be no further realignment for two years they are correct. Whatever we are seeking, or get, will not be in place until 2016. But just because it can't be set up and operational until 2016 doesn't mean stuff won't be happening and soon. Between January and next August most of the questions I've posed will be answered. Concurrent with those meetings and decisions things will be happening behind the scenes as the networks and conferences begin to line up their desires. I think by June or July we will be hearing some definite things about the future of the Big 12 (do they expand or fold), and the potential number of teams that may comprise the remaining conferences.

I know it seems like forever, especially for us older guys, but things are actually playing out at a fairly rapid pace when placed in the context of the greater history of the NCAA.

As always your thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.
We have our January meetings primer! I wish ESPN would hire you to cover that thing, JR. As seems to be the case with so many things, the beginning of movement will likely start and end with Texas. No school in the Big 12 wants to move as long as Texas is on board, and all of them will want to move if Texas moves.
(12-15-2013 09:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]We have our January meetings primer! I wish ESPN would hire you to cover that thing, JR. As seems to be the case with so many things, the beginning of movement will likely start and end with Texas. No school in the Big 12 wants to move as long as Texas is on board, and all of them will want to move if Texas moves.

Thanks, but they don't need me to cover it. They already know what the major players are going to do. Texas is the key, but likely ESPN knows that already too. I've wondered if they ran with Chip's Orangbloods story just to help Texas get rid of Chip which may be a possibility after this mess with Brown is over.

I think what ESPN and the conferences will wait to see is if they get their way, or breakaway to get it, which marginal schools will finally have to make tough decisions to either include, or disassociate, themselves with their conference mates in this endeavor. The number of slots I think will determine the strategies employed both by the networks and the conferences. Anyway, I just hope it leads to a conclusion of this mess so we can all start building relationships again instead of severing them.
(12-15-2013 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-15-2013 09:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]We have our January meetings primer! I wish ESPN would hire you to cover that thing, JR. As seems to be the case with so many things, the beginning of movement will likely start and end with Texas. No school in the Big 12 wants to move as long as Texas is on board, and all of them will want to move if Texas moves.

Thanks, but they don't need me to cover it. They already know what the major players are going to do. Texas is the key, but likely ESPN knows that already too. I've wondered if they ran with Chip's Orangbloods story just to help Texas get rid of Chip which may be a possibility after this mess with Brown is over.

I think what ESPN and the conferences will wait to see is if they get their way, or breakaway to get it, which marginal schools will finally have to make tough decisions to either include, or disassociate, themselves with their conference mates in this endeavor. The number of slots I think will determine the strategies employed both by the networks and the conferences. Anyway, I just hope it leads to a conclusion of this mess so we can all start building relationships again instead of severing them.

JR, can you expand more on what you mean by the bolded statement? I was out of pocket most of this weekend, so I may have missed something.
(12-15-2013 09:34 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-15-2013 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-15-2013 09:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]We have our January meetings primer! I wish ESPN would hire you to cover that thing, JR. As seems to be the case with so many things, the beginning of movement will likely start and end with Texas. No school in the Big 12 wants to move as long as Texas is on board, and all of them will want to move if Texas moves.

Thanks, but they don't need me to cover it. They already know what the major players are going to do. Texas is the key, but likely ESPN knows that already too. I've wondered if they ran with Chip's Orangbloods story just to help Texas get rid of Chip which may be a possibility after this mess with Brown is over.

I think what ESPN and the conferences will wait to see is if they get their way, or breakaway to get it, which marginal schools will finally have to make tough decisions to either include, or disassociate, themselves with their conference mates in this endeavor. The number of slots I think will determine the strategies employed both by the networks and the conferences. Anyway, I just hope it leads to a conclusion of this mess so we can all start building relationships again instead of severing them.

JR, can you expand more on what you mean by the bolded statement? I was out of pocket most of this weekend, so I may have missed something.

The guy that is most commonly the news breaker on Orangebloods (a Texas site) is the one that leaked that the BOR meeting would demand Mack Brown's resignation and that they had already agreed to hire Saban. It stirred a huge storm that precluded Mack Brown from breaking his resignation at another predetermined time. I drew a rebuke from Saban who went ahead and declared that he had never had formal talks with Texas and didn't care for how things were being handled with Mack. ESPN ran with the Orangebloods story line that Chip Brown (no relation to Mack) pushed.

In the aftermath of what was a botched story angle by Chip Brown and an embarrassment for UT officials, there are many Texas fans that would like to see retribution visited upon Chip Brown who has with this one added to a long list of big news misses for UT and the Big 12. Back a couple of years ago he was one that was insistent that Clemson and F.S.U. were coming on board the Big 12. So I guess you could say he has been a Dude of Texas type character. Bullet would know more.
OK, thanks, JR. I knew that Chip broke the news and that, through some form or fashion, circumstances surrounding the story, including some likely vindictiveness by Mack Brown, resulted in Nick Saban having to lie through his teeth and be "appalled" by how he and Mack were treated over the last week. That helps explain how it came back full circle to Chip.
If there was any truth to the Saban talk, Chip may have cost that opportunity as well simply because he is a glory hound and doesn't know when to keep his trap shut.

I am not saying Saban was ever in talks or was ever coming but Chip may have cost that opportunity if it was ever there.
Jim Grobe said some things that were interesting about Wake's positioning vis a vis all some of the things we have discussed here. He cited the inability to recruit on an equal footing with other schools, implied academic requirements were too stringent, implied an institutional reluctance to become more competitive, and suggested that the school needs to make a decision about stepping down on the level of competition.

There have been some similar rumblings out of Pitt and B.C. about the stipend issue and I'm not sure it has universal support in the Big 10, or PAC.
Right now the Big 12 and SEC would be all in, the vast majority of the Big 10 all in, and just over 3/4's of the ACC. The PAC numbers would likely fall between 85% and 100% in. Remembering that not approving of the stipend doesn't mean a school will withdraw from the upper division if they don't get their way, I wonder if we could have as many as 4 that would say no thanks to an upper tier.

Think about the ramifications of that. A move to 3 x 20 would be easily made. Or, we might just keep 5 conferences that total 60 schools. Either way if we have some drop out, it could actually deter the willingness of some to make additions. That kind of thinking would be bad for Connecticut, Cincinnati, and some others.

This will certainly be something to keep an eye on in January. Let's say right now that the ACC did lose just 1, Wake Forest. Would that make them more likely to take 3 (Cincinnati, West Virginia, and Connecticut)? That would put them at 16 plus N.D. Or, would that open the door even more for them to take Texas as an independent with 3 other Big 12 schools as full members? Movement out of conferences should we move to an upper tier could influence the strategy of realignment profoundly. It could also lead to some real hardball as the PAC, Big 10 and SEC vie for the best of the remaining schools. We'll see.
(12-18-2013 02:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Jim Grobe said some things that were interesting about Wake's positioning vis a vis all some of the things we have discussed here. He cited the inability to recruit on an equal footing with other schools, implied academic requirements were too stringent, implied an institutional reluctance to become more competitive, and suggested that the school needs to make a decision about stepping down on the level of competition.

There have been some similar rumblings out of Pitt and B.C. about the stipend issue and I'm not sure it has universal support in the Big 10, or PAC.
Right now the Big 12 and SEC would be all in, the vast majority of the Big 10 all in, and just over 3/4's of the ACC. The PAC numbers would likely fall between 85% and 100% in. Remembering that not approving of the stipend doesn't mean a school will withdraw from the upper division if they don't get their way, I wonder if we could have as many as 4 that would say no thanks to an upper tier.

Think about the ramifications of that. A move to 3 x 20 would be easily made. Or, we might just keep 5 conferences that total 60 schools. Either way if we have some drop out, it could actually deter the willingness of some to make additions. That kind of thinking would be bad for Connecticut, Cincinnati, and some others.

This will certainly be something to keep an eye on in January. Let's say right now that the ACC did lose just 1, Wake Forest. Would that make them more likely to take 3 (Cincinnati, West Virginia, and Connecticut)? That would put them at 16 plus N.D. Or, would that open the door even more for them to take Texas as an independent with 3 other Big 12 schools as full members? Movement out of conferences should we move to an upper tier could influence the strategy of realignment profoundly. It could also lead to some real hardball as the PAC, Big 10 and SEC vie for the best of the remaining schools. We'll see.

Interesting comments from Grobe... I am becoming more and more convinced that schools like Wake and Boston College can accomplish their mission by forming a conference at a lower athletic tier. If they can whittle the Tier 1 school count down to 60, I think they would have a hard time pulling 2 schools out of the SEC and B1G to get them to a 5x12. 3x20 would be easy if most of the Big 12 went to the PAC, but 4x15 could also work by using 3 divisions of 5 teams each for football.
(12-18-2013 10:53 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-18-2013 02:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Jim Grobe said some things that were interesting about Wake's positioning vis a vis all some of the things we have discussed here. He cited the inability to recruit on an equal footing with other schools, implied academic requirements were too stringent, implied an institutional reluctance to become more competitive, and suggested that the school needs to make a decision about stepping down on the level of competition.

There have been some similar rumblings out of Pitt and B.C. about the stipend issue and I'm not sure it has universal support in the Big 10, or PAC.
Right now the Big 12 and SEC would be all in, the vast majority of the Big 10 all in, and just over 3/4's of the ACC. The PAC numbers would likely fall between 85% and 100% in. Remembering that not approving of the stipend doesn't mean a school will withdraw from the upper division if they don't get their way, I wonder if we could have as many as 4 that would say no thanks to an upper tier.

Think about the ramifications of that. A move to 3 x 20 would be easily made. Or, we might just keep 5 conferences that total 60 schools. Either way if we have some drop out, it could actually deter the willingness of some to make additions. That kind of thinking would be bad for Connecticut, Cincinnati, and some others.

This will certainly be something to keep an eye on in January. Let's say right now that the ACC did lose just 1, Wake Forest. Would that make them more likely to take 3 (Cincinnati, West Virginia, and Connecticut)? That would put them at 16 plus N.D. Or, would that open the door even more for them to take Texas as an independent with 3 other Big 12 schools as full members? Movement out of conferences should we move to an upper tier could influence the strategy of realignment profoundly. It could also lead to some real hardball as the PAC, Big 10 and SEC vie for the best of the remaining schools. We'll see.

Interesting comments from Grobe... I am becoming more and more convinced that schools like Wake and Boston College can accomplish their mission by forming a conference at a lower athletic tier. If they can whittle the Tier 1 school count down to 60, I think they would have a hard time pulling 2 schools out of the SEC and B1G to get them to a 5x12. 3x20 would be easy if most of the Big 12 went to the PAC, but 4x15 could also work by using 3 divisions of 5 teams each for football.

Three divisions of 5 could work quite well (although scheduling would be fairly tricky) and thinking in terms of 4 x 15 frees up that last addition by the SEC to be about anyone really. The likelihood for success for divisions at 4 x 15 would be in having some spread in location of the 4 or 5 schools that decided to drop. If 3 of them came from the ACC I think that would mean that a total redistribution of that conference might be likely and then that would escalate the numbers because of the number of attractive key programs there. In short if it is the ACC that loses 3 who step down then we are headed to 3 x 20 because the SEC and Big 10 won't pass on that opportunity to expand.
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