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Full Version: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
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(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.
(06-13-2018 11:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.

I think the ACCN will payout around 7 million by the 3rd or 4th years. All of their schools will be recouping fronted overhead for at least the first two years if not 3. After that they should see around 7 million. Remember their rate won't be as high as ours initially. If they really drive their alums to subscribe they could catch up a bit more and wind up NETTING around 10 million a year which puts them in the 36 to 37 million range with contract escalation they could hit 40 million.

But you hit on a good point with regards to the FSU president. If they wind up with a windfall great. If they don't he's set up a future move by touting it. So he's placed it where it can be played either way regardless of outcome.

But as to multiple feeds, I think if Comcast wins somebody buys out ESPN and finances the moves anyway. If Disney wins they do it. But no matter what it will still be a battle for the rights and the 4 remaining conferences will be utilized to try to land the key properties.
(06-14-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 11:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.

I think the ACCN will payout around 7 million by the 3rd or 4th years. All of their schools will be recouping fronted overhead for at least the first two years if not 3. After that they should see around 7 million. Remember their rate won't be as high as ours initially. If they really drive their alums to subscribe they could catch up a bit more and wind up NETTING around 10 million a year which puts them in the 36 to 37 million range with contract escalation they could hit 40 million.

But you hit on a good point with regards to the FSU president. If they wind up with a windfall great. If they don't he's set up a future move by touting it. So he's placed it where it can be played either way regardless of outcome.

But as to multiple feeds, I think if Comcast wins somebody buys out ESPN and finances the moves anyway. If Disney wins they do it. But no matter what it will still be a battle for the rights and the 4 remaining conferences will be utilized to try to land the key properties.
AllTideUp, you made a good point about the SEC schools being in decent proximity to one another in the context of conference geography. With a few exceptions, most are within driving distances to most others. Places such as Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Mizzou, and Texas A&M, are not centralized, so travel may be a bit extended depending on whom they are playing.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky have in-state rivalries with OOC P5 schools, all from the ACC.
I keep wondering if it would be advantageous if schools such as Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and LSU each had a permanent, yearly P5 rivalry from another conference? That could be a nice attraction for TV + streaming, conference rivalries, etc. Such could look something like this:

Kentucky - Louisville (ongoing)
South Carolina - Clemson (ongoing)
Georgia - Georgia Tech (ongoing)
Florida - Florida State (ongoing)
Vanderbilt - Wake Forest (often play) option- Duke
Tennessee - North Carolina or Va. Tech
Texas A&M - Texas
Arkansas - Oklahoma State?
Missouri - Kansas or Illinois
Auburn - Miami, FL (like that JR? went to one of those
games years back).
Alabama - Oklahoma? Ohio State? TCU? Penn St. (tough
one)
Mississippi State - Kansas State? Texas Tech? NC State?
Ole Miss - Indiana? WVU?
LSU - Nebraska? Wisconsin?

Everyone has 9 power game assured. Some are not particularly realistic, but you get the idea.
(06-14-2018 09:11 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 11:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.

I think the ACCN will payout around 7 million by the 3rd or 4th years. All of their schools will be recouping fronted overhead for at least the first two years if not 3. After that they should see around 7 million. Remember their rate won't be as high as ours initially. If they really drive their alums to subscribe they could catch up a bit more and wind up NETTING around 10 million a year which puts them in the 36 to 37 million range with contract escalation they could hit 40 million.

But you hit on a good point with regards to the FSU president. If they wind up with a windfall great. If they don't he's set up a future move by touting it. So he's placed it where it can be played either way regardless of outcome.

But as to multiple feeds, I think if Comcast wins somebody buys out ESPN and finances the moves anyway. If Disney wins they do it. But no matter what it will still be a battle for the rights and the 4 remaining conferences will be utilized to try to land the key properties.
AllTideUp, you made a good point about the SEC schools being in decent proximity to one another in the context of conference geography. With a few exceptions, most are within driving distances to most others. Places such as Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Mizzou, and Texas A&M, are not centralized, so travel may be a bit extended depending on whom they are playing.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky have in-state rivalries with OOC P5 schools, all from the ACC.
I keep wondering if it would be advantageous if schools such as Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and LSU each had a permanent, yearly P5 rivalry from another conference? That could be a nice attraction for TV + streaming, conference rivalries, etc. Such could look something like this:

Kentucky - Louisville (ongoing)
South Carolina - Clemson (ongoing)
Georgia - Georgia Tech (ongoing)
Florida - Florida State (ongoing)
Vanderbilt - Wake Forest (often play) option- Duke
Tennessee - North Carolina or Va. Tech
Texas A&M - Texas
Arkansas - Oklahoma State?
Missouri - Kansas or Illinois
Auburn - Miami, FL (like that JR? went to one of those
games years back).
Alabama - Oklahoma? Ohio State? TCU? Penn St. (tough
one)
Mississippi State - Kansas State? Texas Tech? NC State?
Ole Miss - Indiana? WVU?
LSU - Nebraska? Wisconsin?

Everyone has 9 power game assured. Some are not particularly realistic, but you get the idea.

Do I like it? As a concept maybe. As for Auburn? No. We've played Miami a few times over the years but a game played in an actual Hurricane in the 70's which we won 3 - 0 was the most memorable. No team kept the ball for four downs. Both sides tried to advance the ball on the first two downs and didn't want to risk a punt unless there was an extra down. Ah, the good old days before mandatory lightening delays (never mind that prior to the advent of the mandatory delay nobody was killed by lightening at a game). And in the days before everyone started wussing out of contracts because of a threat of a hurricane (not necessarily an actual land falling event like the one Auburn played in back then as the visiting team). I guess that's one reason some of the new generation think I'm calloused.

Our oldest OOC rival is Georgia Tech which was played every year from 1892 until 1978 with the exception of a couple of years during WWII. That game was the first, but forgotten, lost rivalry of realignment. Tech canceled the series in order to accommodate their scheduling in the ACC.

Ole Miss actually has a rivalry with Vanderbilt in addition to those of L.S.U. and State and they don't have many outside of the conference other than Memphis.

Anything with Miss State would be a pure contrivance.

As for Alabama make it Notre Dame. Let Arkansas have Oklahoma. Missouri would be Kansas. I'd say set Auburn up with N.C. State or North Carolina and L.S.U. with Miami. Tennessee and Virginia Tech could work quite well.

But the point here is that none of that happens unless all of those schools are under ESPN contract. So Texas / Texas A&M or Arkansas/Oklahoma would be conference games if that were to happen. Otherwise whoever controls their rights won't go for it and have to split the revenues with ESPN every two years.

Now if the Big 12 survives and is under ESPN contract solely, then maybe we could do this.
(06-14-2018 09:54 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2018 09:11 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 11:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.

I think the ACCN will payout around 7 million by the 3rd or 4th years. All of their schools will be recouping fronted overhead for at least the first two years if not 3. After that they should see around 7 million. Remember their rate won't be as high as ours initially. If they really drive their alums to subscribe they could catch up a bit more and wind up NETTING around 10 million a year which puts them in the 36 to 37 million range with contract escalation they could hit 40 million.

But you hit on a good point with regards to the FSU president. If they wind up with a windfall great. If they don't he's set up a future move by touting it. So he's placed it where it can be played either way regardless of outcome.

But as to multiple feeds, I think if Comcast wins somebody buys out ESPN and finances the moves anyway. If Disney wins they do it. But no matter what it will still be a battle for the rights and the 4 remaining conferences will be utilized to try to land the key properties.
AllTideUp, you made a good point about the SEC schools being in decent proximity to one another in the context of conference geography. With a few exceptions, most are within driving distances to most others. Places such as Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Mizzou, and Texas A&M, are not centralized, so travel may be a bit extended depending on whom they are playing.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky have in-state rivalries with OOC P5 schools, all from the ACC.
I keep wondering if it would be advantageous if schools such as Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and LSU each had a permanent, yearly P5 rivalry from another conference? That could be a nice attraction for TV + streaming, conference rivalries, etc. Such could look something like this:

Kentucky - Louisville (ongoing)
South Carolina - Clemson (ongoing)
Georgia - Georgia Tech (ongoing)
Florida - Florida State (ongoing)
Vanderbilt - Wake Forest (often play) option- Duke
Tennessee - North Carolina or Va. Tech
Texas A&M - Texas
Arkansas - Oklahoma State?
Missouri - Kansas or Illinois
Auburn - Miami, FL (like that JR? went to one of those
games years back).
Alabama - Oklahoma? Ohio State? TCU? Penn St. (tough
one)
Mississippi State - Kansas State? Texas Tech? NC State?
Ole Miss - Indiana? WVU?
LSU - Nebraska? Wisconsin?

Everyone has 9 power game assured. Some are not particularly realistic, but you get the idea.

Do I like it? As a concept maybe. As for Auburn? No. We've played Miami a few times over the years but a game played in an actual Hurricane in the 70's which we won 3 - 0 was the most memorable. No team kept the ball for four downs. Both sides tried to advance the ball on the first two downs and didn't want to risk a punt unless there was an extra down. Ah, the good old days before mandatory lightening delays (never mind that prior to the advent of the mandatory delay nobody was killed by lightening at a game). And in the days before everyone started wussing out of contracts because of a threat of a hurricane (not necessarily an actual land falling event like the one Auburn played in back then as the visiting team). I guess that's one reason some of the new generation think I'm calloused.

Our oldest OOC rival is Georgia Tech which was played every year from 1892 until 1978 with the exception of a couple of years during WWII. That game was the first, but forgotten, lost rivalry of realignment. Tech canceled the series in order to accommodate their scheduling in the ACC.

Ole Miss actually has a rivalry with Vanderbilt in addition to those of L.S.U. and State and they don't have many outside of the conference other than Memphis.

Anything with Miss State would be a pure contrivance.

As for Alabama make it Notre Dame. Let Arkansas have Oklahoma. Missouri would be Kansas. I'd say set Auburn up with N.C. State or North Carolina and L.S.U. with Miami. Tennessee and Virginia Tech could work quite well.

But the point here is that none of that happens unless all of those schools are under ESPN contract. So Texas / Texas A&M or Arkansas/Oklahoma would be conference games if that were to happen. Otherwise whoever controls their rights won't go for it and have to split the revenues with ESPN every two years.

Now if the Big 12 survives and is under ESPN contract solely, then maybe we could do this.

I think the major problem is that the annual OOC games are major in-state rivals with longstanding traditions. They're the sort of games that are fitting the cap the season with, something that everyone looks forward to.

Outside of UT/A&M and Mizzou/KU, those games don't exist for the others. Well, they do mostly exist, but they're already conference games so I think it loses some of its punch if these sort of OOC games were scheduled the first couple of weeks of the season. Pulling it off would be difficult I think if for no more reason than convincing a lot of these schools a certain counterpart in another league was worth playing every single season.

I think any rivalry game worth having is worth bringing under one roof so that OOC games can be more varied.
Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Would some in the SEC balk about suggesting 3 total schools from Texas? Arguments could be made that perhaps Oklahoma State or Kansas State would render as much or possibly more value than Texas Tech. TTU is a very long way from non-Texas SEC schools. Doubt if SEC-east would show enthusiasm for it. Even Iowa State would be closer to most SEC schools.

From an athletic standpoint, Oklahoma State surpasses TTU, ISU, and KSU. As to market, oSu looks the better.

This is not me stating my preferences. But it would be matters in the early discussion phase.
If the Big Ten added Kansas + OU, and the SEC added Texas + Texas Tech...

...I think the ACC would add WVU, Oklahoma State, TCU and Baylor. Yeah, that's a pretty big conference (18, vs. 16 for the SEC and Big Ten), but it creates a group of 3 out west, gives the ACC 1/2 of Bedlam, and restores a number of WVU rivalries -- all of which is good value. If Notre Dame wants all in BEFORE this, bye bye Baylor. If after, could be Kansas State, Iowa State, or even Cincinnati.
(06-17-2018 08:21 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]If the Big Ten added Kansas + OU, and the SEC added Texas + Texas Tech...

...I think the ACC would add WVU, Oklahoma State, TCU and Baylor. Yeah, that's a pretty big conference (18, vs. 16 for the SEC and Big Ten), but it creates a group of 3 out west, gives the ACC 1/2 of Bedlam, and restores a number of WVU rivalries -- all of which is good value. If Notre Dame wants all in BEFORE this, bye bye Baylor. If after, could be Kansas State, Iowa State, or even Cincinnati.

I don't think the ACC would anyone but West Virginia and Notre Dame.

Remember the Big 10 would be moving to 16. The SEC would be moving to 16. And we all would be headed to a P4 and perhaps a champs only model. Hello N.D.!

The question is would the PAC take Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Iowa State and T.C.U.?
(06-17-2018 08:19 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Would some in the SEC balk about suggesting 3 total schools from Texas? Arguments could be made that perhaps Oklahoma State or Kansas State would render as much or possibly more value than Texas Tech. TTU is a very long way from non-Texas SEC schools. Doubt if SEC-east would show enthusiasm for it. Even Iowa State would be closer to most SEC schools.

From an athletic standpoint, Oklahoma State surpasses TTU, ISU, and KSU. As to market, oSu looks the better.

This is not me stating my preferences. But it would be matters in the early discussion phase.

I don't think so. Having 3 weekly games with a regional market of 28 million would salve a lot of sore spots. The financial bonanza of Texas's brand and having all 3 P schools in the state would bring premiums. Besides, for A&M and UT Lubbock isn't that far. And the additions fit the ESPN model of acquisitions. They triple down in a mammoth state at the exclusion of double dipping in a state of 4 million. Arkansas isn't that far from Lubbock and the two Mississippi schools and L.S.U. aren't much farther away than Auburn is from Arkansas. Missouri has had to play them before.

It's not ideal but it is doable.
(06-17-2018 08:34 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 08:19 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Would some in the SEC balk about suggesting 3 total schools from Texas? Arguments could be made that perhaps Oklahoma State or Kansas State would render as much or possibly more value than Texas Tech. TTU is a very long way from non-Texas SEC schools. Doubt if SEC-east would show enthusiasm for it. Even Iowa State would be closer to most SEC schools.

From an athletic standpoint, Oklahoma State surpasses TTU, ISU, and KSU. As to market, oSu looks the better.

This is not me stating my preferences. But it would be matters in the early discussion phase.

I don't think so. Having 3 weekly games with a regional market of 28 million would salve a lot of sore spots. The financial bonanza of Texas's brand and having all 3 P schools in the state would bring premiums. Besides, for A&M and UT Lubbock isn't that far. And the additions fit the ESPN model of acquisitions. They triple down in a mammoth state at the exclusion of double dipping in a state of 4 million. Arkansas isn't that far from Lubbock and the two Mississippi schools and L.S.U. aren't much farther away than Auburn is from Arkansas. Missouri has had to play them before.

It's not ideal but it is doable.

The P4 conspiracy & great compromise at the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Ramada Plaza Executive Conference Room:

ACC: Gets WVU. Notre Dame, either go FT or Baylor gets a spot.

BIG: Gets Kansas and Iowa State. Oh shut up Delany, they are AAU which you brag about.

PAC: Gets OU, oSu, TexasTech, and TCU. Accept it. It is very generous

SEC: Gets the b*tch, mean Texas. For getting top prize, must take Kansas State.
-----------------
Dang, need to take the nighttime meds.....
(06-17-2018 09:42 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 08:34 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 08:19 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Would some in the SEC balk about suggesting 3 total schools from Texas? Arguments could be made that perhaps Oklahoma State or Kansas State would render as much or possibly more value than Texas Tech. TTU is a very long way from non-Texas SEC schools. Doubt if SEC-east would show enthusiasm for it. Even Iowa State would be closer to most SEC schools.

From an athletic standpoint, Oklahoma State surpasses TTU, ISU, and KSU. As to market, oSu looks the better.

This is not me stating my preferences. But it would be matters in the early discussion phase.

I don't think so. Having 3 weekly games with a regional market of 28 million would salve a lot of sore spots. The financial bonanza of Texas's brand and having all 3 P schools in the state would bring premiums. Besides, for A&M and UT Lubbock isn't that far. And the additions fit the ESPN model of acquisitions. They triple down in a mammoth state at the exclusion of double dipping in a state of 4 million. Arkansas isn't that far from Lubbock and the two Mississippi schools and L.S.U. aren't much farther away than Auburn is from Arkansas. Missouri has had to play them before.

It's not ideal but it is doable.

The P4 conspiracy & great compromise at the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Ramada Plaza Executive Conference Room:

ACC: Gets WVU. Notre Dame, either go FT or Baylor gets a spot.

BIG: Gets Kansas and Iowa State. Oh shut up Delany, they are AAU which you brag about.

PAC: Gets OU, oSu, TexasTech, and TCU. Accept it. It is very generous

SEC: Gets the b*tch, mean Texas. For getting top prize, must take Kansas State.
-----------------
Dang, need to take the nighttime meds.....

A+ for effort. If this were 2010 when ESPN was pulling the majority of the moves and FOX was getting its feet wet, and the market model still predominated, I would agree that some form of a compromise would be in order to work this fiasco out.

But we are talking 2023, plus or minus one, where FOX and ESPN might not cooperate, where FAANG enterprises might get involved, and at a time when secrecy behind the scenes in the Big 12 will likely be the norm since by 2023 leaving the conference at the end of 2024 would leave virtually no damages due to the GOR that the last year of funds held by the Big 12 wouldn't cover. So I don't anticipate a great effort to try to place all of the Big 12 schools. If they can fine. If the can't they probably won't be worried about it.

So if it comes down to cherry picking, and I believe it will, the SEC will make a defensively minded offensive move for either Oklahoma or Texas because either of them locks us in financially. ESPN's preference would be for Texas because they want to hold their rights and FOX has a slight interest in the Sooners.

So if Oklahoma heads to the Big 10 with Kansas, then the SEC will do what it takes to get Texas and that just might mean Tech.

Notre Dame and West Virginia fills out East coast expansion.

If the PAC wants to expand they have Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and T.C.U. to get there.

Now the variant here is if Oklahoma wants in and Texas is coy then the SEC can go with Oklahoma and whoever they desire as a companion (likely OSU). Then the Big 10 might just pass. There isn't enough value for them in Kansas and I don't see Texas heading to the Big 10. Maybe then Kansas, Texas, Iowa State and Texas Tech head to the PAC. West Virginia heads to the SEC. And Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State and T.C.U. are just S.O.L.

Each conference is going to do what it takes (within their parameters) to land one of the biggest 2 brands left on the realignment table. Whether there are any legs for Texas to the PAC will depend on whether or not ESPN winds up with an interest in the PACN. The LHN doesn't expire until 2031 and ESPN holds that leash.

If Oklahoma and Kansas head to a FOX held conference like the Big 10 you had better believe that ESPN will be working hard to land Texas in either the SEC or ACC and I have to believe that the SEC would be the preferable option due to distance and old rivals. In terms of earning potential T.C.U. would be the better partner for Texas. But I would think Texas might have a lot to say about that. Texas Tech as an earner is lower than both Baylor and T.C.U. despite the alumni advantage. Kansas State is about on par with Tech and Iowa State is pretty far down the list. Oklahoma State would be better as a partner with Texas if the Horns would agree to it. But if OU is headed off North I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for the chances of the Pokes.

I think the ACC would be foolish not to take WVU. They clearly bring more to the table than anyone else the ACC could consider outside of Notre Dame.

The only upside to Tech is the complete sweep of the Texas public P5's which does bring a premium in advertising rates to the holder. But for the SEC holding Austin basically gives us all we need to completely dominate Texas. So sure it would be wonderful to pick up another state. But with Texas we get locked into the top value for business by quite a bit over the Big 10 (based on the WSJ estimations), we end up with the deepest branding which insures the best pay in a content driven world of streaming, we have the broadest possible depth in high viewer saturation states which also insures our continued leverage with ad rates beyond just Texas, and we likely wind up back on top in TV revenue. So if they want Tech in it will be so.

All of this said this is Strategy #2. I think our main play is OU and OSU. Monetarily it does almost as much for us, gives us a slightly better pair than Texas & Tech, and leaves the Longhorns in a tough position with regard to the Big 10 and PAC. It almost forces Texas to consider seriously the SEC option. Plus if the SEC lands Oklahoma then ESPN has to like its chances to eventually hold onto Texas whether that is in the SEC, in the ACC with some partial deal, or as a lure to the PAC.

Anyway hopefully we'll see in a few years.
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Maybe we should have a summit? Call it the Treaty of Austin?

On a more serious note, what is the history of the SWC's relationship with the SEC? When that entity was going through dissolution, did they initially seek out merger with the Big 8? Were there ever any discussions with the SEC outside of Arkansas bailing ship?

I don't mind the idea at all of Texas and Texas Tech although I think there are a few factors we have to account for...

If Oklahoma leaves for the Big Ten and in so doing weakens their program, then half the dirty work has been done for UT already. While it is in Texas' interest for OU to head off to the Big Ten and hurt their athletic profile, I don't know if that would make UT long for the SEC in any way.

I think the biggest problem UT will have is competing with A&M for exposure in markets outside of the state of TX. Right now, that is A&M's distinct advantage. It's an athletic one, but in the long run it also makes a difference to what sort of alumni base you have. So in a negotiation, I think we should start there.

Another issue is that the Longhorn Network has decent carriage right now, it just doesn't make a lot of money. You do have studios sitting in Austin though and UT owns half of it so ESPN can't unilaterally decide to shut the thing down without consequences. UT needs a 3rd Tier deal as good or better than what they get with the LHN.

The reason I asked the earlier question about the SWC is because I think Texas mostly wants to play schools that are close by. There's probably some nostalgia for that as well as a motivation to keep travel costs reasonable. That and Texas has always grown fat off the relative weakness of instate rivals. We also live in a world where TV markets are going to matter less so the original reasons for breaking up the SWC won't really define the pay model. In the not too distant past, UT has moved mountains to preserve a core of TX schools within the same league.

Now, it's entirely possible that the UT leadership would prefer to distinguish themselves from the other TX schools, but I don't think the state politicians will allow that to happen. So from UT's perspective, they may be in a situation where they just go with the flow because fighting those priorities is not a matter of life and death for them.

Nonetheless, I think there's a nexus of Texas interests and SEC interests...

With Oklahoma and other schools in the Midwest not getting as many visits to the state of TX, there are more athletes remaining home. So athletically, Texas doesn't need the SEC as much as they might otherwise. What UT does need is more exposure in markets outside of TX and to neutralize some of A&M's advantages.

What Texas also needs is to appease politicians in the state capital and keep more of the fans happy with a more TX based schedule. The SEC can actually accommodate these priorities because we're the only conference within reasonable striking distance, geographically speaking.

I do think the state politicians would like to get Houston in if at all possible. It's the only major public school in TX that isn't already P5 and the future of higher ed in TX will depend on adequately supplying the demand. Lifting Houston up will gain them revenue and exposure so that they can continue to grow and provide for the demands of the state. They don't really get oil money so the boost has got to come from somewhere and we already know that the state has laid out a goal to increase both TTU and UH in stature.

The private schools can't meet that need and virtually every other public school in the state is a part of either the UT or A&M systems. If you told the politicians that UT, A&M, TTU, and UH would be in then I think they take that deal and don't quibble over the others in the slightest.

From the networks' perspective, I wouldn't think they would care. As long as they have UT and A&M then everything else is small potatoes compared to the big 2. If Texas Tech and Houston have decent sized alumni bases that could grow over time and be more likely to attract subs then that's just icing on the cake.

I actually think Houston's lack of overall revenue and subsidization might help their case in a strange way. What it would mean is that they are less likely to be a consistent threat athletically. TCU and Baylor have proven to be a thorn in the side on occasion. UH would grow in stature, but would have a long way to go to be consistently competitive.

If the TX politicians are happy and if UT is happy and if the networks don't care then the only potential snag is what the SEC wants...

But there is an advantage for the SEC as well. If they take 3 more TX schools then they could add an 18th member from another region and expand the footprint. I would suggest West Virginia so that they can have a slice of the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic.

Another advantage is that Houston is more centrally located to the Western schools so travel becomes a little more reasonable for a host of fan bases...something to mitigate all those trips to Lubbock.

Another advantage is all the direct access to recruits for programs outside the state of TX. Most of the top recruits will stay home and go to UT or A&M. Some will go to TTU and UH, but there's plenty left over for other schools and they can go to the recruits backyard without having to play one of the big boys in the process.
(06-14-2018 09:11 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 11:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 02:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018 12:05 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]Another advantage that the SEC has is that we don't tend to sponsor as many sports. This alone reduces travel costs. This fits pretty closely with the Big 12 model so there's less incongruence when you match the two of them up.

On the topic of numbers, I actually think 20 becomes an optimal number as we move more into the Midwest and Southwest. Travel is one of the reasons why.

Having made the trip from the heart of SEC country to College Station, I can tell you that it's a haul. If we're expanding into that region and we already have then it makes sense to create divisions that allow those schools to have reasonably close travel partners.

Most of the SEC schools are actually pretty close to one another and within easy driving distance. Some of the more recent additions are further from the core of the conference so it can create issues for travel. The best way to mitigate travel is to make sure long trips aren't required more than necessary. Make them a little more sparing and a multi-regional league can work just fine.

Even then, I'm not super high on Texas Tech. Lubbock is not a short trip for anyone so I'd prefer TCU if for no more reason than it's a heck of a lot easier to get to.

If we looked at 20 then we could do this...

Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia

That breaks down into 4 pretty concise divisions.

West: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

You also have the added benefit of ensuring an even distribution of home and away games within each division in the event we go to 9 conference games.

I like that arrangement at 20. If we were thoroughly convinced that the ACC would remain and not be poached that would be a pretty nice way to finish things out.

I think the plan is to move to 16 with two more from the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma are the preferred pairing. But whether we did that with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, or Texas and Texas Tech, I think our preference would be to wait and see what happens to the East before committing more slots.

That's why the only thing that could make us take more would be the acceptance of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State only to have Texas say they were ready to join too. At 18 I think we hold 1 slot each for a school from North Carolina and Virginia.

But if we were assured the ACC would be a gestalt, then finishing out with Kansas and another, West Virginia makes sense, could very well prove to be a decisive move that from that point on hamstrings our competition to match our branding and markets.

I noticed that the FSU President publicly stated that he expected anywhere from a 10-15 million dollar boost for the ACC Network when it comes online.

I'm not sure I buy that. It's entirely possible he's just saying that to give the donors what they want to hear. In the event it doesn't pan out then no harm, no foul as a school like FSU will have a home elsewhere if they want one. It's not like anyone would blame the Presidents for the failure of the network anyway should things turn out poorly.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible things work out pretty well. If the SEC and ACC Networks are bundled together then that's a pretty strong footprint with a lot of content. Maybe they make pretty good money on it.

The long term issue is the survival of the cable model itself. The content is valuable, but eventually a system that rewards multiple feeds will lose popularity.

I think the ACCN will payout around 7 million by the 3rd or 4th years. All of their schools will be recouping fronted overhead for at least the first two years if not 3. After that they should see around 7 million. Remember their rate won't be as high as ours initially. If they really drive their alums to subscribe they could catch up a bit more and wind up NETTING around 10 million a year which puts them in the 36 to 37 million range with contract escalation they could hit 40 million.

But you hit on a good point with regards to the FSU president. If they wind up with a windfall great. If they don't he's set up a future move by touting it. So he's placed it where it can be played either way regardless of outcome.

But as to multiple feeds, I think if Comcast wins somebody buys out ESPN and finances the moves anyway. If Disney wins they do it. But no matter what it will still be a battle for the rights and the 4 remaining conferences will be utilized to try to land the key properties.
AllTideUp, you made a good point about the SEC schools being in decent proximity to one another in the context of conference geography. With a few exceptions, most are within driving distances to most others. Places such as Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Mizzou, and Texas A&M, are not centralized, so travel may be a bit extended depending on whom they are playing.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky have in-state rivalries with OOC P5 schools, all from the ACC.
I keep wondering if it would be advantageous if schools such as Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and LSU each had a permanent, yearly P5 rivalry from another conference? That could be a nice attraction for TV + streaming, conference rivalries, etc. Such could look something like this:

Kentucky - Louisville (ongoing)
South Carolina - Clemson (ongoing)
Georgia - Georgia Tech (ongoing)
Florida - Florida State (ongoing)
Vanderbilt - Wake Forest (often play) option- Duke
Tennessee - North Carolina or Va. Tech
Texas A&M - Oklahoma State
Arkansas - Texas

Missouri - Kansas or Illinois
Auburn - Miami, FL (like that JR? went to one of those
games years back).
Alabama - Oklahoma? Ohio State? TCU? Penn St. (tough
one)
Mississippi State - Kansas State? Texas Tech? NC State?
Ole Miss - Indiana? WVU?
LSU - Nebraska? Wisconsin?

Everyone has 9 power game assured. Some are not particularly realistic, but you get the idea.

Fify 04-rock
(06-17-2018 10:55 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]I think the ACC would be foolish not to take WVU. They clearly bring more to the table than anyone else the ACC could consider outside of Notre Dame.

THIS. I don't care how folks feel about their academics, their fan behavior, or any of that... it's a business decision, and it's the best #16 (after #15 Notre Dame) that's realistic for the ACC.

#NoBrainer.
(06-17-2018 11:59 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2018 01:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Strategy #2:

We ignore Oklahoma. In fact we ignore them so long that they have to take a deal to the Big 10 with Kansas. Now we don't have to take Oklahoma State. We don't need to consider a putrid Kansas football product. We don't need to think about Iowa State. But what we do is wait. We wait on a pissed off Texas who won't like their options in the PAC, who won't like the idea of forcing their fans to play in the great white North. And who likely only need a good excuse to reclaim rivalries with Arkansas and Texas A&M and who quietly may realize that having Baylor and T.C.U. in the same conference at an elevated status has not benefited the Longhorn program.

ESPN wants Texas. Slive once said that the SEC would be proud to have any or all of the 3 major Texas public schools. (He said this while speaking in Dallas at some function.) If Texas doesn't want Tech tagging along then fine. If they do then fine. If they don't want Tech we offer #16 to West Virginia. If they do want Tech we take them.

What does this do for Texas?

1. In minimizes Oklahoma's recruiting profile in Texas, specifically in Dallas / Ft. Worth. How? They at most would have 1 game a year there and 1 game a year against a Texas school (Texas). Travel for the parents of the Oklahoma recruits from Texas would be extensive. The closest away game would be Kansas. If the kids go to Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech they will likely have 6 or 7 games in Texas. This hurts Oklahoma and helps Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.

2. Baylor and T.C.U. are not promoted to a P5 conference. Why? Baylor doesn't fit the PAC profile. T.C.U. may be a long shot to receive a PAC invitation but without OU or UT heading West I don't think it is likely the PAC will expand. This too benefits Texas. Now major recruits in the state of Texas have two fewer home choices if they want to play in a P conference. More available talent staying in Texas where they are divided among only 3 top Texas programs means all three Texas schools enhance their depth.

3. Carrying the same brand as A&M helps to re-elevate the Longhorn program. The SEC consistently gets the most players drafted by the NFL. That advantage for the Aggies is neutralized and the game once again becomes an annual event, as does Texas / Arkansas, Texas / L.S.U., Texas / Ole Miss, Texas / Missouri, and Texas / Texas Tech remains on the schedule.

4. For the reason of scheduling this move is the best Texas can make outside of staying in the Big 12 and with OU as an annual OOC game they have schedule integrity maintained for key rivals and enhanced for other divisional games.

5. This does make us all more money not only due to the Texas brand but because all P schools in Texas would be SEC properties. And the likely remaining schools in Texas would be ESPN properties through the AAC. This give Texas (And A&M and Tech) the most leverage they will have anywhere outside of the old SWC.

Now what is good for the SEC is point #5 and the fact that by landing Texas there is no way any other conference can catch our value.

If Texas didn't want to keep the OU game for some reason it could be easily replaced with an annual OOC game against Notre Dame or USC depending upon ESPN wishes.

So we don't land Oklahoma. But we land Texas who now contends with a weakened Oklahoma. For the SEC we incorporate an old OOC foe and help to neutralize the other.

IMO, this is also a win. And and as I have pointed out before if it gives ESPN (and the SEC) control over Texas game day advertising it's a win for rights holder as well.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Maybe we should have a summit? Call it the Treaty of Austin?

On a more serious note, what is the history of the SWC's relationship with the SEC? When that entity was going through dissolution, did they initially seek out merger with the Big 8? Were there ever any discussions with the SEC outside of Arkansas bailing ship?

I don't mind the idea at all of Texas and Texas Tech although I think there are a few factors we have to account for...

If Oklahoma leaves for the Big Ten and in so doing weakens their program, then half the dirty work has been done for UT already. While it is in Texas' interest for OU to head off to the Big Ten and hurt their athletic profile, I don't know if that would make UT long for the SEC in any way.

I think the biggest problem UT will have is competing with A&M for exposure in markets outside of the state of TX. Right now, that is A&M's distinct advantage. It's an athletic one, but in the long run it also makes a difference to what sort of alumni base you have. So in a negotiation, I think we should start there.

Another issue is that the Longhorn Network has decent carriage right now, it just doesn't make a lot of money. You do have studios sitting in Austin though and UT owns half of it so ESPN can't unilaterally decide to shut the thing down without consequences. UT needs a 3rd Tier deal as good or better than what they get with the LHN.

The reason I asked the earlier question about the SWC is because I think Texas mostly wants to play schools that are close by. There's probably some nostalgia for that as well as a motivation to keep travel costs reasonable. That and Texas has always grown fat off the relative weakness of instate rivals. We also live in a world where TV markets are going to matter less so the original reasons for breaking up the SWC won't really define the pay model. In the not too distant past, UT has moved mountains to preserve a core of TX schools within the same league.

Now, it's entirely possible that the UT leadership would prefer to distinguish themselves from the other TX schools, but I don't think the state politicians will allow that to happen. So from UT's perspective, they may be in a situation where they just go with the flow because fighting those priorities is not a matter of life and death for them.

Nonetheless, I think there's a nexus of Texas interests and SEC interests...

With Oklahoma and other schools in the Midwest not getting as many visits to the state of TX, there are more athletes remaining home. So athletically, Texas doesn't need the SEC as much as they might otherwise. What UT does need is more exposure in markets outside of TX and to neutralize some of A&M's advantages.

What Texas also needs is to appease politicians in the state capital and keep more of the fans happy with a more TX based schedule. The SEC can actually accommodate these priorities because we're the only conference within reasonable striking distance, geographically speaking.

I do think the state politicians would like to get Houston in if at all possible. It's the only major public school in TX that isn't already P5 and the future of higher ed in TX will depend on adequately supplying the demand. Lifting Houston up will gain them revenue and exposure so that they can continue to grow and provide for the demands of the state. They don't really get oil money so the boost has got to come from somewhere and we already know that the state has laid out a goal to increase both TTU and UH in stature.

The private schools can't meet that need and virtually every other public school in the state is a part of either the UT or A&M systems. If you told the politicians that UT, A&M, TTU, and UH would be in then I think they take that deal and don't quibble over the others in the slightest.

From the networks' perspective, I wouldn't think they would care. As long as they have UT and A&M then everything else is small potatoes compared to the big 2. If Texas Tech and Houston have decent sized alumni bases that could grow over time and be more likely to attract subs then that's just icing on the cake.

I actually think Houston's lack of overall revenue and subsidization might help their case in a strange way. What it would mean is that they are less likely to be a consistent threat athletically. TCU and Baylor have proven to be a thorn in the side on occasion. UH would grow in stature, but would have a long way to go to be consistently competitive.

If the TX politicians are happy and if UT is happy and if the networks don't care then the only potential snag is what the SEC wants...

But there is an advantage for the SEC as well. If they take 3 more TX schools then they could add an 18th member from another region and expand the footprint. I would suggest West Virginia so that they can have a slice of the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic.

Another advantage is that Houston is more centrally located to the Western schools so travel becomes a little more reasonable for a host of fan bases...something to mitigate all those trips to Lubbock.

Another advantage is all the direct access to recruits for programs outside the state of TX. Most of the top recruits will stay home and go to UT or A&M. Some will go to TTU and UH, but there's plenty left over for other schools and they can go to the recruits backyard without having to play one of the big boys in the process.

Texas talked to us when the SWC broke up. A&M talked with us when the SWC broke up. In '90 we were having discussions with Texas, A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma through Texas, Florida State and Clemson. Since that time Texas has remained in discussion with us off and on. They publicly speak one way, privately they are a lot more open to considering all options.
All this centers around former associates (conference mates) of Missouri and Texas A&M. Are there other B12 schools the two would like to see in the SEC? Neither may not be fond of that happening, particularly with the old arch-rivals. Yet, it appears Mizzou could use a better geographic partner in the SEC. Texas A&M is enjoying the perceptual, if not practical, elevation in being separated from the UT. OU may be the only one in that region that both would not put much energy into opposing.
(06-19-2018 10:29 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]All this centers around former associates (conference mates) of Missouri and Texas A&M. Are there other B12 schools the two would like to see in the SEC? Neither may not be fond of that happening, particularly with the old arch-rivals. Yet, it appears Mizzou could use a better geographic partner in the SEC. Texas A&M is enjoying the perceptual, if not practical, elevation in being separated from the UT. OU may be the only one in that region that both would not put much energy into opposing.

Yep, this angle doesn't get explored enough. Oklahoma adds tremendous value. I think the rest of the conference could work with A&M's possible objection to Texas as long as Oklahoma is certain. But the conference presidents won't object to a school, any school, that can make us more money, and enhance our academic standing. So as long as we land one of those two they will be much more likely to acquiesce to the inclinations of A&M or Missouri.

I wouldn't be so sure that Missouri would object to Kansas. They might because they essentially recruit the same area and as long as they can play them OOC they might prefer the brand edge in recruitment. But, like Florida and South Carolina they too may realize that rivalries may one day be permanently lost to further expansion which has been the reason that those two have backed their in state rivals in the past.

I can't stress enough, however, that no conference will be turning down Texas if they want in. As long as they come on the conference's terms, seeking no special advantage over the other members they will be accepted. The Big 10, SEC, and perhaps the PAC would turn them down if they wanted advantages. I'm not sure the ACC would since they essentially took N.D. with special privileges. So that may yet be their destination.

Personally I can't see why Missouri would object to either Oklahoma or Kansas since both, along with Arkansas give the Tigers much more manageable travel distances.

A&M's issues I understand, but most Aggies want to object to Oklahoma as well. But then we are talking fans and not the administration. The administrations will be thinking in terms of how much interest in their school playing the other one will bring. They will be thinking about the associations or prestige that the other school might bring to theirs. And their A.D.'s will be thinking about which schools will generate the most donor money for priority tickets. I just don't see how Oklahoma or Texas miss on any of these administrative priorities. It's the SEC's responsibility to level the playing field for all members. It's the presidents' responsibility to build the associations and add to the bottom line.

What can be said for Oklahoma is that they give us what we want in Texas without taking away A&M's exclusivity and they give it to us while adding branding, content value, and a new state of 4 million people.

The problem with the expansion out of the Big 12 is once you have added Oklahoma or Texas but not both, there are no home run second selections. From an athletic standpoint Kansas has more basketball cachet than just about anyone. But the paucity of football acumen is overwhelming. West Virginia is a well rounded sports program but it is an outlier to everyone but Kentucky, and brings in a very very small state. T.C.U. gives us a presence actually in DFW, but doesn't bring any intangibles, and has a small alumni base. Baylor is currently a leper. Kansas State brings a relatively small state but is middle of the pack athletically for the Big 3 sports. Oklahoma State does all of that just as well as any of them but brings no new market. So if landing them lands OU I have no objections.

But, I see no circumstance where Texas gets turned down if they want in on our terms.

There was talk in 2010 that ESPN liked the pairing of Oklahoma and Kansas for the SEC. Texas A&M was however the main objective and OU would have been #2 if they had not been insistent on OSU. Missouri was the market addition substitute for #2. Missouri was also favored by ESPN. I say this to point out that ideally for ESPN they would probably love to see Texas as a partial to the ACC for a 5 game slate like the Irish have. Then if Oklahoma and Kansas joined the SEC that would give them the best three properties from the Big 12 with no baggage. I just doubt that OU would make the move without OSU.
(06-19-2018 12:51 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-19-2018 10:29 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]All this centers around former associates (conference mates) of Missouri and Texas A&M. Are there other B12 schools the two would like to see in the SEC? Neither may not be fond of that happening, particularly with the old arch-rivals. Yet, it appears Mizzou could use a better geographic partner in the SEC. Texas A&M is enjoying the perceptual, if not practical, elevation in being separated from the UT. OU may be the only one in that region that both would not put much energy into opposing.

Yep, this angle doesn't get explored enough. Oklahoma adds tremendous value. I think the rest of the conference could work with A&M's possible objection to Texas as long as Oklahoma is certain. But the conference presidents won't object to a school, any school, that can make us more money, and enhance our academic standing. So as long as we land one of those two they will be much more likely to acquiesce to the inclinations of A&M or Missouri.

I wouldn't be so sure that Missouri would object to Kansas. They might because they essentially recruit the same area and as long as they can play them OOC they might prefer the brand edge in recruitment. But, like Florida and South Carolina they too may realize that rivalries may one day be permanently lost to further expansion which has been the reason that those two have backed their in state rivals in the past.

I can't stress enough, however, that no conference will be turning down Texas if they want in. As long as they come on the conference's terms, seeking no special advantage over the other members they will be accepted. The Big 10, SEC, and perhaps the PAC would turn them down if they wanted advantages. I'm not sure the ACC would since they essentially took N.D. with special privileges. So that may yet be their destination.

Personally I can't see why Missouri would object to either Oklahoma or Kansas since both, along with Arkansas give the Tigers much more manageable travel distances.

A&M's issues I understand, but most Aggies want to object to Oklahoma as well. But then we are talking fans and not the administration. The administrations will be thinking in terms of how much interest in their school playing the other one will bring. They will be thinking about the associations or prestige that the other school might bring to theirs. And their A.D.'s will be thinking about which schools will generate the most donor money for priority tickets. I just don't see how Oklahoma or Texas miss on any of these administrative priorities. It's the SEC's responsibility to level the playing field for all members. It's the presidents' responsibility to build the associations and add to the bottom line.

What can be said for Oklahoma is that they give us what we want in Texas without taking away A&M's exclusivity and they give it to us while adding branding, content value, and a new state of 4 million people.

The problem with the expansion out of the Big 12 is once you have added Oklahoma or Texas but not both, there are no home run second selections. From an athletic standpoint Kansas has more basketball cachet than just about anyone. But the paucity of football acumen is overwhelming. West Virginia is a well rounded sports program but it is an outlier to everyone but Kentucky, and brings in a very very small state. T.C.U. gives us a presence actually in DFW, but doesn't bring any intangibles, and has a small alumni base. Baylor is currently a leper. Kansas State brings a relatively small state but is middle of the pack athletically for the Big 3 sports. Oklahoma State does all of that just as well as any of them but brings no new market. So if landing them lands OU I have no objections.

But, I see no circumstance where Texas gets turned down if they want in on our terms.

There was talk in 2010 that ESPN liked the pairing of Oklahoma and Kansas for the SEC. Texas A&M was however the main objective and OU would have been #2 if they had not been insistent on OSU. Missouri was the market addition substitute for #2. Missouri was also favored by ESPN. I say this to point out that ideally for ESPN they would probably love to see Texas as a partial to the ACC for a 5 game slate like the Irish have. Then if Oklahoma and Kansas joined the SEC that would give them the best three properties from the Big 12 with no baggage. I just doubt that OU would make the move without OSU.

I have difficulty seeing Texas as FT or partial in the ACC. Partial fb could work in fb. The ACC does have solid Olympic-style sports. Basketball is great, baseball is good. Yet Texas would be a big outlier. There are so many more quality programs much closer.

Notre Dame has a history with NE ACC schools such as Pitt and BC, and sometimes played others such as GT and Miami. By comparison, Texas would be more of an oddity.
Nevertheless, Texas chatted with the ACC before about this. How serious that was is unclear.
If Texas doesn't want to play Texas A&M, and gets angry if OU leaves also for the SEC, then they may as well do ACC FT instead of partial fb.
There are Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Rice, Houston, etc. available as closer opponents, but nailing down available dates is often a schedule challenge.
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