CSNbbs

(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:14 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]I'll try to keep this short.
4 x 16 is the goal for multiple reasons.
In order for 4 x 16 to work, Texas must go to the PAC (ESPN will get their due somehow as a payoff for their LHN investment).
Texas Tech will end up going with Texas.
If any school gets left out it will be TCU......
Everything else is "up for grabs", (although I do think JR is correct in that Baylor will end up in the SEC).

And at this point 4 x 16 would be a reasonable way to end things, if it can be pulled off, and I'm not yet convinced of that. If Texas goes PAC with Texas Tech it will be interesting to see how things wrap up. Who do you think the ACC will get in that and why? My concerns will be that the SEC and Big 10 will distance themselves from the ACC and PAC and that the disparity there will only lead to more instability in the future. I felt strongly that the ACC needed Texas to at least bring a bit more parity in income.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

(05-15-2014 09:19 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina make a good pod don't you think.
Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Florida.
Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and LSU.
Mizzou, A & M, Baylor, Okie State/Oklahoma.

The only thing I would celebrate is that it got done and Notre Dame was all in so the 4 champions could play it off. Other than that? Meh!

So let me guess: Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10
Hopefully the SEC gets Oklahoma, with Baylor and W.V.U.
The PAC gets Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State.

I think the hardest thing to gauge would be whether it was PAC, SEC, or Big 10 people who would be the most pissed off.

(05-15-2014 09:45 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:19 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina make a good pod don't you think.
Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Florida.
Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and LSU.
Mizzou, A & M, Baylor, Okie State/Oklahoma.

The only thing I would celebrate is that it got done and Notre Dame was all in so the 4 champions could play it off. Other than that? Meh!

So let me guess: Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10
Hopefully the SEC gets Oklahoma, with Baylor and W.V.U.
The PAC gets Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State.

I think the hardest thing to gauge would be whether it was PAC, SEC, or Big 10 people who would be the most pissed off.

Yeah, I don't see a winning hand there. As we have mentioned before, Vanderbilt leaving the SEC is a waaaay longshot that would involve something the ACC wouldn't like either... Syracuse, BC, Duke, Miami, and Wake Forest saying to hell with the public's and their priorities, we are going to do our own thing. Things will have to get drastic before that happens.

(05-15-2014 10:40 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:45 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:19 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina make a good pod don't you think.
Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Florida.
Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and LSU.
Mizzou, A & M, Baylor, Okie State/Oklahoma.

The only thing I would celebrate is that it got done and Notre Dame was all in so the 4 champions could play it off. Other than that? Meh!

So let me guess: Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10
Hopefully the SEC gets Oklahoma, with Baylor and W.V.U.
The PAC gets Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State.

I think the hardest thing to gauge would be whether it was PAC, SEC, or Big 10 people who would be the most pissed off.

Yeah, I don't see a winning hand there. As we have mentioned before, Vanderbilt leaving the SEC is a waaaay longshot that would involve something the ACC wouldn't like either... Syracuse, BC, Duke, Miami, and Wake Forest saying to hell with the public's and their priorities, we are going to do our own thing. Things will have to get drastic before that happens.

Of course BBB that would be one way to end it. If you can't make everyone happy don't make anyone totally happy. Florida State and Clemson would be more ticked off than ever with this. It would set up the table down the road.

(05-15-2014 09:36 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:14 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]I'll try to keep this short.
4 x 16 is the goal for multiple reasons.
In order for 4 x 16 to work, Texas must go to the PAC (ESPN will get their due somehow as a payoff for their LHN investment).
Texas Tech will end up going with Texas.
If any school gets left out it will be TCU......
Everything else is "up for grabs", (although I do think JR is correct in that Baylor will end up in the SEC).

And at this point 4 x 16 would be a reasonable way to end things, if it can be pulled off, and I'm not yet convinced of that. If Texas goes PAC with Texas Tech it will be interesting to see how things wrap up. Who do you think the ACC will get in that and why? My concerns will be that the SEC and Big 10 will distance themselves from the ACC and PAC and that the disparity there will only lead to more instability in the future. I felt strongly that the ACC needed Texas to at least bring a bit more parity in income.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

SEC fit?
For the sake of comparison, the numbers for current SEC stadiums are as follows:



Rank School Football Stadium Capacity
1 Tennessee 102,455
2 Alabama 101,821
3 Georgia 92,746
4 LSU 92,542
5 Florida 88,548
6 Auburn 87,541
7 S. Carolina 80,250
8 Arkansas 76,000
9 Kentucky 67,606
10 Ole Miss 60,580
11 Miss. State 55,082
12 Vanderbilt 39,790


* All told, the 12 SEC stadiums feature a combined seating capacity of 944,871.

* The average stadium size in the SEC is 78,739. Take out Vanderbilt and the average jumps to 82,280.
From Mr. SEC

This Category: Academic Fit

Why: Because the SEC has a definite “type” of school and that similarity helps bind it together. For our purposes, we’ll look at whether or not the 35 schools on our list are an academic fit with the SEC’s 12 current schools. And we’ll do this by studying a number of different factors.

US News and World Report’s 2012 rankings help to give a general idea of a school’s academic reputation. Total enrollment is considered. Ditto whether or not a school is private or a major, public university. We’ll look at religious affiliation as well as the size of the city in which each school is located.

To find the academic fits out there, we first had to identify the SEC’s profile. And here’s what that profile is (not counting soon-to-be-member Texas A&M):



* A public institution. Vanderbilt is the SEC’s only private school.

* A school with an average total enrollment of about 27,000 students (typically with a lesser emphasis on post-graduate studies and research).

* A school ranked somewhere between #58 (Florida) and #157 (Mississippi State). Vanderbilt ranks #17, but it’s certainly not the norm in the SEC. Note also that while presidents would love to nab a school ranked highly (meaning a school with a superb reputation), those schools aren’t likely to jump to Slive’s league. Call it the “halo effect.” School presidents want to associate with other top-name institutions in order to improve their own school’s reputation (and donations).

* A school with no religious affiliation. Not a single SEC school is tied to a church.

* A school in a somewhat rural area. With the exception of Vanderbilt, no SEC school is located in a city with more than 300,000 inhabitants. This “one-horse town” factor is one reason SEC fans are so passionate about their schools’ athletic exploits. With the exception of Nashville, there are no SEC towns featuring major league teams. There are no “commuter” schools.
Again from Mr. SEC

For the sake of comparison, here are the facts and figures for the SEC’s current roster of universities:



School US News & World Report ’12 Rank Total Enrollment Private or Public Religious Affiliation City of 300,000 An SEC Fit?
Alabama 75 30,127 Public None No PERFECT
Arkansas 132 21,405 Public None No PERFECT
Auburn 82 25,078 Public None No PERFECT
Florida 58 49,827 Public None No PERFECT
Georgia 62 34,677 Public None No PERFECT
Kentucky 124 27,108 Public None No PERFECT
LSU 128 29,451 Public None No PERFECT
Miss. State 157 19,644 Public None No PERFECT
Ole Miss 143 17,085 Public None No PERFECT
S. Carolina 111 29,597 Public None No PERFECT
Tennessee 101 30,312 Public None No PERFECT
Vanderbilt 17 12,714 Private None Yes NO


* As you can see, 11 of the SEC’s 12 institutions are very, very similar. It’s not hard to spot the league’s overall profile.

* Not surprisingly, Texas A&M will fit the SEC profile perfectly. And if Missouri joins the league, MU will be a perfect academic fit as well.

Your top academic leader does not fit the profile of your own conference. Trolling? Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts!

(05-16-2014 07:47 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:36 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:14 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]I'll try to keep this short.
4 x 16 is the goal for multiple reasons.
In order for 4 x 16 to work, Texas must go to the PAC (ESPN will get their due somehow as a payoff for their LHN investment).
Texas Tech will end up going with Texas.
If any school gets left out it will be TCU......
Everything else is "up for grabs", (although I do think JR is correct in that Baylor will end up in the SEC).

And at this point 4 x 16 would be a reasonable way to end things, if it can be pulled off, and I'm not yet convinced of that. If Texas goes PAC with Texas Tech it will be interesting to see how things wrap up. Who do you think the ACC will get in that and why? My concerns will be that the SEC and Big 10 will distance themselves from the ACC and PAC and that the disparity there will only lead to more instability in the future. I felt strongly that the ACC needed Texas to at least bring a bit more parity in income.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

SEC fit?
For the sake of comparison, the numbers for current SEC stadiums are as follows:



Rank School Football Stadium Capacity
1 Tennessee 102,455
2 Alabama 101,821
3 Georgia 92,746
4 LSU 92,542
5 Florida 88,548
6 Auburn 87,541
7 S. Carolina 80,250
8 Arkansas 76,000
9 Kentucky 67,606
10 Ole Miss 60,580
11 Miss. State 55,082
12 Vanderbilt 39,790


* All told, the 12 SEC stadiums feature a combined seating capacity of 944,871.

* The average stadium size in the SEC is 78,739. Take out Vanderbilt and the average jumps to 82,280.
From Mr. SEC

This Category: Academic Fit

Why: Because the SEC has a definite “type” of school and that similarity helps bind it together. For our purposes, we’ll look at whether or not the 35 schools on our list are an academic fit with the SEC’s 12 current schools. And we’ll do this by studying a number of different factors.

US News and World Report’s 2012 rankings help to give a general idea of a school’s academic reputation. Total enrollment is considered. Ditto whether or not a school is private or a major, public university. We’ll look at religious affiliation as well as the size of the city in which each school is located.

To find the academic fits out there, we first had to identify the SEC’s profile. And here’s what that profile is (not counting soon-to-be-member Texas A&M):



* A public institution. Vanderbilt is the SEC’s only private school.

* A school with an average total enrollment of about 27,000 students (typically with a lesser emphasis on post-graduate studies and research).

* A school ranked somewhere between #58 (Florida) and #157 (Mississippi State). Vanderbilt ranks #17, but it’s certainly not the norm in the SEC. Note also that while presidents would love to nab a school ranked highly (meaning a school with a superb reputation), those schools aren’t likely to jump to Slive’s league. Call it the “halo effect.” School presidents want to associate with other top-name institutions in order to improve their own school’s reputation (and donations).

* A school with no religious affiliation. Not a single SEC school is tied to a church.

* A school in a somewhat rural area. With the exception of Vanderbilt, no SEC school is located in a city with more than 300,000 inhabitants. This “one-horse town” factor is one reason SEC fans are so passionate about their schools’ athletic exploits. With the exception of Nashville, there are no SEC towns featuring major league teams. There are no “commuter” schools.
Again from Mr. SEC

For the sake of comparison, here are the facts and figures for the SEC’s current roster of universities:



School US News & World Report ’12 Rank Total Enrollment Private or Public Religious Affiliation City of 300,000 An SEC Fit?
Alabama 75 30,127 Public None No PERFECT
Arkansas 132 21,405 Public None No PERFECT
Auburn 82 25,078 Public None No PERFECT
Florida 58 49,827 Public None No PERFECT
Georgia 62 34,677 Public None No PERFECT
Kentucky 124 27,108 Public None No PERFECT
LSU 128 29,451 Public None No PERFECT
Miss. State 157 19,644 Public None No PERFECT
Ole Miss 143 17,085 Public None No PERFECT
S. Carolina 111 29,597 Public None No PERFECT
Tennessee 101 30,312 Public None No PERFECT
Vanderbilt 17 12,714 Private None Yes NO


* As you can see, 11 of the SEC’s 12 institutions are very, very similar. It’s not hard to spot the league’s overall profile.

* Not surprisingly, Texas A&M will fit the SEC profile perfectly. And if Missouri joins the league, MU will be a perfect academic fit as well.

Your top academic leader does not fit the profile of your own conference. Trolling? Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts!

Mr. SEC is a pro football guy from the North. But truly, the issue here is Vanderbilt is a charter member. Now true enough Tulane and Georgia Tech (one private and an exclusive city based public) did leave on their own volition. But Vanderbilt has stayed. But now to your theory Oklahoma or Oklahoma State fit. West Virginia may fit by numbers, but they certainly don't match the mean even minus Vanderbilt and that was what prompted the trolling comment. And while I like Baylor for various reasons, they don't match that profile either! But, the SEC needs one private to maintain a reason not to have total disclosure.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying that if the division broke down this way it is not going to be popular in the SEC. I do think it would be profitable, just not popular.

I also don't expect the move to be totally popular in the ACC. Above the state of South Carolina I think they'll be happy as clams, but south of North Carolina they will be fuming. If this leads to a merger at some point there is logic. In the merging of markets for the network it works.

The best thing I can say about it is this. Baylor does not have Tigers as mascots and they wear green. The SEC is long on tigers and red teams. West Virginia on a dark night might only be confused for Missouri until they get a good look at the helmets. If we lose the ugly Vanderbilt mascot with his Big Ugly Head, we won't miss the Commodore for long because Pistol Pete is even uglier. Even if T. Boone puts all of us in his will it will still be hard to swallow even if on their own Oklahoma State is really okay.

Back on track:

To 16 we should take in this order (warning for entire thread readers but the opinion of the poster is subject to change):
1. Texas and Oklahoma
2. Oklahoma and Kansas
3. Oklahoma and Baylor
4. Oklahoma State and Kansas
5. Oklahoma and Kansas State

To 18 we should take:
1. Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
2. Texas, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

option A:
OU, texas (who is extremely humbled), OSU, KU

option B:
OU, texas (who is extremely humbled), OSU, WVU

(05-26-2014 09:10 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]option A:
OU, texas (who is extremely humbled), OSU, KU

option B:
OU, texas (who is extremely humbled), OSU, WVU

John I could see another option B:
Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State (that takes the SEC to 7 AAU schools) which makes the SEC more attractive should there be any future ACC movement.

(05-16-2014 08:14 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2014 07:47 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:36 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]And at this point 4 x 16 would be a reasonable way to end things, if it can be pulled off, and I'm not yet convinced of that. If Texas goes PAC with Texas Tech it will be interesting to see how things wrap up. Who do you think the ACC will get in that and why? My concerns will be that the SEC and Big 10 will distance themselves from the ACC and PAC and that the disparity there will only lead to more instability in the future. I felt strongly that the ACC needed Texas to at least bring a bit more parity in income.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

SEC fit?
For the sake of comparison, the numbers for current SEC stadiums are as follows:



Rank School Football Stadium Capacity
1 Tennessee 102,455
2 Alabama 101,821
3 Georgia 92,746
4 LSU 92,542
5 Florida 88,548
6 Auburn 87,541
7 S. Carolina 80,250
8 Arkansas 76,000
9 Kentucky 67,606
10 Ole Miss 60,580
11 Miss. State 55,082
12 Vanderbilt 39,790


* All told, the 12 SEC stadiums feature a combined seating capacity of 944,871.

* The average stadium size in the SEC is 78,739. Take out Vanderbilt and the average jumps to 82,280.
From Mr. SEC

This Category: Academic Fit

Why: Because the SEC has a definite “type” of school and that similarity helps bind it together. For our purposes, we’ll look at whether or not the 35 schools on our list are an academic fit with the SEC’s 12 current schools. And we’ll do this by studying a number of different factors.

US News and World Report’s 2012 rankings help to give a general idea of a school’s academic reputation. Total enrollment is considered. Ditto whether or not a school is private or a major, public university. We’ll look at religious affiliation as well as the size of the city in which each school is located.

To find the academic fits out there, we first had to identify the SEC’s profile. And here’s what that profile is (not counting soon-to-be-member Texas A&M):



* A public institution. Vanderbilt is the SEC’s only private school.

* A school with an average total enrollment of about 27,000 students (typically with a lesser emphasis on post-graduate studies and research).

* A school ranked somewhere between #58 (Florida) and #157 (Mississippi State). Vanderbilt ranks #17, but it’s certainly not the norm in the SEC. Note also that while presidents would love to nab a school ranked highly (meaning a school with a superb reputation), those schools aren’t likely to jump to Slive’s league. Call it the “halo effect.” School presidents want to associate with other top-name institutions in order to improve their own school’s reputation (and donations).

* A school with no religious affiliation. Not a single SEC school is tied to a church.

* A school in a somewhat rural area. With the exception of Vanderbilt, no SEC school is located in a city with more than 300,000 inhabitants. This “one-horse town” factor is one reason SEC fans are so passionate about their schools’ athletic exploits. With the exception of Nashville, there are no SEC towns featuring major league teams. There are no “commuter” schools.
Again from Mr. SEC

For the sake of comparison, here are the facts and figures for the SEC’s current roster of universities:



School US News & World Report ’12 Rank Total Enrollment Private or Public Religious Affiliation City of 300,000 An SEC Fit?
Alabama 75 30,127 Public None No PERFECT
Arkansas 132 21,405 Public None No PERFECT
Auburn 82 25,078 Public None No PERFECT
Florida 58 49,827 Public None No PERFECT
Georgia 62 34,677 Public None No PERFECT
Kentucky 124 27,108 Public None No PERFECT
LSU 128 29,451 Public None No PERFECT
Miss. State 157 19,644 Public None No PERFECT
Ole Miss 143 17,085 Public None No PERFECT
S. Carolina 111 29,597 Public None No PERFECT
Tennessee 101 30,312 Public None No PERFECT
Vanderbilt 17 12,714 Private None Yes NO


* As you can see, 11 of the SEC’s 12 institutions are very, very similar. It’s not hard to spot the league’s overall profile.

* Not surprisingly, Texas A&M will fit the SEC profile perfectly. And if Missouri joins the league, MU will be a perfect academic fit as well.

Your top academic leader does not fit the profile of your own conference. Trolling? Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts!

Mr. SEC is a pro football guy from the North. But truly, the issue here is Vanderbilt is a charter member. Now true enough Tulane and Georgia Tech (one private and an exclusive city based public) did leave on their own volition. But Vanderbilt has stayed. But now to your theory Oklahoma or Oklahoma State fit. West Virginia may fit by numbers, but they certainly don't match the mean even minus Vanderbilt and that was what prompted the trolling comment. And while I like Baylor for various reasons, they don't match that profile either! But, the SEC needs one private to maintain a reason not to have total disclosure.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying that if the division broke down this way it is not going to be popular in the SEC. I do think it would be profitable, just not popular.

I also don't expect the move to be totally popular in the ACC. Above the state of South Carolina I think they'll be happy as clams, but south of North Carolina they will be fuming. If this leads to a merger at some point there is logic. In the merging of markets for the network it works.

The best thing I can say about it is this. Baylor does not have Tigers as mascots and they wear green. The SEC is long on tigers and red teams. West Virginia on a dark night might only be confused for Missouri until they get a good look at the helmets. If we lose the ugly Vanderbilt mascot with his Big Ugly Head, we won't miss the Commodore for long because Pistol Pete is even uglier. Even if T. Boone puts all of us in his will it will still be hard to swallow even if on their own Oklahoma State is really okay.

JR, when you mentioned that Tulane and Georgia Tech left, you forgot to mention Sewanee-The University of the South (which also was a charter member of the SEC).
BTW, below South Carolina (the state), there is a school in Atlanta, that would be the happiest of all of the ACC schools, should Vanderbilt join the ACC.
And since you brought up that the SEC was long on red.....did you know that a few years ago South Carolina changed the shade of red they wore to exactly the same as Alabama and Arkansas? You have three schools whose team color is identical.....talk about togetherness or whatever.
The ACC does have some big headed mascots (Dook, Wake Forest, the Cavalier, an Orange, and an Ibis....we wouldn't even notice one more.
At least Pistol Pete has a moustache.

(05-27-2014 04:25 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2014 08:14 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2014 07:47 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:36 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

SEC fit?
For the sake of comparison, the numbers for current SEC stadiums are as follows:



Rank School Football Stadium Capacity
1 Tennessee 102,455
2 Alabama 101,821
3 Georgia 92,746
4 LSU 92,542
5 Florida 88,548
6 Auburn 87,541
7 S. Carolina 80,250
8 Arkansas 76,000
9 Kentucky 67,606
10 Ole Miss 60,580
11 Miss. State 55,082
12 Vanderbilt 39,790


* All told, the 12 SEC stadiums feature a combined seating capacity of 944,871.

* The average stadium size in the SEC is 78,739. Take out Vanderbilt and the average jumps to 82,280.
From Mr. SEC

This Category: Academic Fit

Why: Because the SEC has a definite “type” of school and that similarity helps bind it together. For our purposes, we’ll look at whether or not the 35 schools on our list are an academic fit with the SEC’s 12 current schools. And we’ll do this by studying a number of different factors.

US News and World Report’s 2012 rankings help to give a general idea of a school’s academic reputation. Total enrollment is considered. Ditto whether or not a school is private or a major, public university. We’ll look at religious affiliation as well as the size of the city in which each school is located.

To find the academic fits out there, we first had to identify the SEC’s profile. And here’s what that profile is (not counting soon-to-be-member Texas A&M):



* A public institution. Vanderbilt is the SEC’s only private school.

* A school with an average total enrollment of about 27,000 students (typically with a lesser emphasis on post-graduate studies and research).

* A school ranked somewhere between #58 (Florida) and #157 (Mississippi State). Vanderbilt ranks #17, but it’s certainly not the norm in the SEC. Note also that while presidents would love to nab a school ranked highly (meaning a school with a superb reputation), those schools aren’t likely to jump to Slive’s league. Call it the “halo effect.” School presidents want to associate with other top-name institutions in order to improve their own school’s reputation (and donations).

* A school with no religious affiliation. Not a single SEC school is tied to a church.

* A school in a somewhat rural area. With the exception of Vanderbilt, no SEC school is located in a city with more than 300,000 inhabitants. This “one-horse town” factor is one reason SEC fans are so passionate about their schools’ athletic exploits. With the exception of Nashville, there are no SEC towns featuring major league teams. There are no “commuter” schools.
Again from Mr. SEC

For the sake of comparison, here are the facts and figures for the SEC’s current roster of universities:



School US News & World Report ’12 Rank Total Enrollment Private or Public Religious Affiliation City of 300,000 An SEC Fit?
Alabama 75 30,127 Public None No PERFECT
Arkansas 132 21,405 Public None No PERFECT
Auburn 82 25,078 Public None No PERFECT
Florida 58 49,827 Public None No PERFECT
Georgia 62 34,677 Public None No PERFECT
Kentucky 124 27,108 Public None No PERFECT
LSU 128 29,451 Public None No PERFECT
Miss. State 157 19,644 Public None No PERFECT
Ole Miss 143 17,085 Public None No PERFECT
S. Carolina 111 29,597 Public None No PERFECT
Tennessee 101 30,312 Public None No PERFECT
Vanderbilt 17 12,714 Private None Yes NO


* As you can see, 11 of the SEC’s 12 institutions are very, very similar. It’s not hard to spot the league’s overall profile.

* Not surprisingly, Texas A&M will fit the SEC profile perfectly. And if Missouri joins the league, MU will be a perfect academic fit as well.

Your top academic leader does not fit the profile of your own conference. Trolling? Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts!

Mr. SEC is a pro football guy from the North. But truly, the issue here is Vanderbilt is a charter member. Now true enough Tulane and Georgia Tech (one private and an exclusive city based public) did leave on their own volition. But Vanderbilt has stayed. But now to your theory Oklahoma or Oklahoma State fit. West Virginia may fit by numbers, but they certainly don't match the mean even minus Vanderbilt and that was what prompted the trolling comment. And while I like Baylor for various reasons, they don't match that profile either! But, the SEC needs one private to maintain a reason not to have total disclosure.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying that if the division broke down this way it is not going to be popular in the SEC. I do think it would be profitable, just not popular.

I also don't expect the move to be totally popular in the ACC. Above the state of South Carolina I think they'll be happy as clams, but south of North Carolina they will be fuming. If this leads to a merger at some point there is logic. In the merging of markets for the network it works.

The best thing I can say about it is this. Baylor does not have Tigers as mascots and they wear green. The SEC is long on tigers and red teams. West Virginia on a dark night might only be confused for Missouri until they get a good look at the helmets. If we lose the ugly Vanderbilt mascot with his Big Ugly Head, we won't miss the Commodore for long because Pistol Pete is even uglier. Even if T. Boone puts all of us in his will it will still be hard to swallow even if on their own Oklahoma State is really okay.

JR, when you mentioned that Tulane and Georgia Tech left, you forgot to mention Sewanee-The University of the South (which also was a charter member of the SEC).
BTW, below South Carolina (the state), there is a school in Atlanta, that would be the happiest of all of the ACC schools, should Vanderbilt join the ACC.
And since you brought up that the SEC was long on red.....did you know that a few years ago South Carolina changed the shade of red they wore to exactly the same as Alabama and Arkansas? You have three schools whose team color is identical.....talk about togetherness or whatever.
The ACC does have some big headed mascots (Dook, Wake Forest, the Cavalier, an Orange, and an Ibis....we wouldn't even notice one more.
At least Pistol Pete has a moustache.

Suwanee (The University of the South) is a good school, but it just became too small as a private to afford to keep up its football program. Not much of a story there really.

I'll give you this the Commodore big head wouldn't be noticed in the ACC.

I could see Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas for Vanderbilt. I could see Texas, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State for Vanderbilt. I could even see Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma State for Vanderbilt. Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor for Vanderbilt might work too. But if the SEC isn't gaining at least one AAU program the trade won't work, big headed mascots or not. And actually Arkansas and Alabama are Crimson. South Carolina is Garnet. I'll tell you what we could do. We could swap you Vanderbilt for Duke, or maybe even Wake Forest or N.C. State. How about that?

South Carolina may call their color Garnet but it is the same Pantone color as Mississippi State (my bad NOT Alabama) and Arkansas. They had to change when none of the merchandise manufactures could ever match their color.
http://www.arkansasfight.com/2014/2/19/5...ade-of-red

http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/5811...or-scheme/

http://mrsec.com/2014/02/arkansas-changi...olor-hell/

(05-27-2014 05:16 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]South Carolina may call their color Garnet but it is the same Pantone color as Mississippi State (my bad NOT Alabama) and Arkansas. They had to change when none of the merchandise manufactures could ever match their color.
http://www.arkansasfight.com/2014/2/19/5...ade-of-red

http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/5811...or-scheme/

http://mrsec.com/2014/02/arkansas-changi...olor-hell/

The same thing happened to Tennessee. Their Orange has not always been the Bright Orange that it is today. It once was more of a yellowish orange. I heard, although I never substantiated, that their particular shade of Orange was no longer available through merchandise manufactures. However most of these color issues are not because they cannot be matched it is because the Asian sweatshops where the merchandise is made keeps their color selections very basic to discourage returned merchandise. They don't want to try to match the color as they want to run multiple products off of simplified dye choices. Matching colors raises the overhead for colors that are unique. It is time consuming, makes it too difficult to duplicate, and it is far more costly out of bulk quantity purchases.

(05-27-2014 05:32 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-27-2014 05:16 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]South Carolina may call their color Garnet but it is the same Pantone color as Mississippi State (my bad NOT Alabama) and Arkansas. They had to change when none of the merchandise manufactures could ever match their color.
http://www.arkansasfight.com/2014/2/19/5...ade-of-red

http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/5811...or-scheme/

http://mrsec.com/2014/02/arkansas-changi...olor-hell/

The same thing happened to Tennessee. Their Orange has not always been the Bright Orange that it is today. It once was more of a yellowish orange. I heard, although I never substantiated, that their particular shade of Orange was no longer available through merchandise manufactures. However most of these color issues are not because they cannot be matched it is because the Asian sweatshops where the merchandise is made keeps their color selections very basic to discourage returned merchandise. They don't want to try to match the color as they want to run multiple products off of simplified dye choices. Matching colors raises the overhead for colors that are unique. It is time consuming, makes it too difficult to duplicate, and it is far more costly out of bulk quantity purchases.

Nobody makes the mistake of confusing Pantone 202 with Pantone 278. There is no 'lil carolina garnet, but there is Carolina Blue.
http://www.licensing.unc.edu/Stylesheet

(05-15-2014 09:45 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:19 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina make a good pod don't you think.
Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Florida.
Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and LSU.
Mizzou, A & M, Baylor, Okie State/Oklahoma.

The only thing I would celebrate is that it got done and Notre Dame was all in so the 4 champions could play it off. Other than that? Meh!

So let me guess: Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10
Hopefully the SEC gets Oklahoma, with Baylor and W.V.U.
The PAC gets Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State.

I think the hardest thing to gauge would be whether it was PAC, SEC, or Big 10 people who would be the most pissed off.

I really think that you get Oklahoma and Baylor and we have the responsibility of sending the West Virginia fans to obedience school.

(05-27-2014 06:58 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:45 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-15-2014 09:19 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina make a good pod don't you think.
Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Florida.
Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and LSU.
Mizzou, A & M, Baylor, Okie State/Oklahoma.

The only thing I would celebrate is that it got done and Notre Dame was all in so the 4 champions could play it off. Other than that? Meh!

So let me guess: Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10
Hopefully the SEC gets Oklahoma, with Baylor and W.V.U.
The PAC gets Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State.

I think the hardest thing to gauge would be whether it was PAC, SEC, or Big 10 people who would be the most pissed off.

I really think that you get Oklahoma and Baylor and we have the responsibility of sending the West Virginia fans to obedience school.

If that comes to pass I think the SEC needs to send you guys $1 from every ticket sold to SEC games to help with that gargantuan endeavor.

In the end, Texas will decide what happens with realignment, especially in regards to the Big XII, which seems to be the wildcard conference . No other Big XII school will ever depart unless the Longhorns blow up the conference in the future. OU and the rest will stay if UT stays, and Kansas probably will stay as well, as the B1G won't take Kansas State. I also believe the ACC is much more viable as a conference than other folks tend to believe. They are a network away from being really solid. Great TV markets exist on the Atlantic Coast. The potential is there and the commish seems to have his head in the game. Texas, as usual, will have their way, and the final say in this all... JMHO of course.

(05-28-2014 03:25 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]In the end, Texas will decide what happens with realignment, especially in regards to the Big XII, which seems to be the wildcard conference . No other Big XII school will ever depart unless the Longhorns blow up the conference in the future. OU and the rest will stay if UT stays, and Kansas probably will stay as well, as the B1G won't take Kansas State. I also believe the ACC is much more viable as a conference than other folks tend to believe. They are a network away from being really solid. Great TV markets exist on the Atlantic Coast. The potential is there and the commish seems to have his head in the game. Texas, as usual, will have their way, and the final say in this all... JMHO of course.

A network really wouldn't help the ACC as issues the conference suffers from aren't strictly money related. Chances are, you and a large percentage of the SE would watch an Auburn/SCAR game on ESPN2. But would you tune into a NCST/SYR matchup? Or how about a an ISU/OKST tilt? Every conference has top and bottom teams, but demand in the middle is what really sustains a conference.

(05-28-2014 07:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2014 03:25 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]In the end, Texas will decide what happens with realignment, especially in regards to the Big XII, which seems to be the wildcard conference . No other Big XII school will ever depart unless the Longhorns blow up the conference in the future. OU and the rest will stay if UT stays, and Kansas probably will stay as well, as the B1G won't take Kansas State. I also believe the ACC is much more viable as a conference than other folks tend to believe. They are a network away from being really solid. Great TV markets exist on the Atlantic Coast. The potential is there and the commish seems to have his head in the game. Texas, as usual, will have their way, and the final say in this all... JMHO of course.

A network really wouldn't help the ACC as issues the conference suffers from aren't strictly money related. Chances are, you and a large percentage of the SE would watch an Auburn/SCAR game on ESPN2. But would you tune into a NCST/SYR matchup? Or how about a an ISU/OKST tilt? Every conference has top and bottom teams, but demand in the middle is what really sustains a conference.

Perspective.
If you lived in North Carolina and northward you would be watching NCSU and Syracuse. Auburn may as well be on the moon, and .....well it's lil carolina.
When I watch sports on TV, I will ALWAYS watch a game where an ACC is involved over anything else. The only time that I ever see SEC teams play is when they are playing ACC opponents.

(05-28-2014 07:58 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2014 07:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2014 03:25 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: [ -> ]In the end, Texas will decide what happens with realignment, especially in regards to the Big XII, which seems to be the wildcard conference . No other Big XII school will ever depart unless the Longhorns blow up the conference in the future. OU and the rest will stay if UT stays, and Kansas probably will stay as well, as the B1G won't take Kansas State. I also believe the ACC is much more viable as a conference than other folks tend to believe. They are a network away from being really solid. Great TV markets exist on the Atlantic Coast. The potential is there and the commish seems to have his head in the game. Texas, as usual, will have their way, and the final say in this all... JMHO of course.

A network really wouldn't help the ACC as issues the conference suffers from aren't strictly money related. Chances are, you and a large percentage of the SE would watch an Auburn/SCAR game on ESPN2. But would you tune into a NCST/SYR matchup? Or how about a an ISU/OKST tilt? Every conference has top and bottom teams, but demand in the middle is what really sustains a conference.

Perspective.
If you lived in North Carolina and northward you would be watching NCSU and Syracuse. Auburn may as well be on the moon, and .....well it's lil carolina.
When I watch sports on TV, I will ALWAYS watch a game where an ACC is involved over anything else. The only time that I ever see SEC teams play is when they are playing ACC opponents.

An ACC fan would probably, as you have said, choose the ACC game, just as the Big XII would probably choose a Big XII game. These games directly pertain to, and affect your school's place within the standings each week.