I assume it's not possible to remove Evansville from the conference and they won't willingly join the Summit where they'd be more competitive. But as has been mentioned on the Conference Realignment board, would we have any interest in pursuing Denver? Word is that they've offered travel incentives to join the WCC but have still been declined. Would the MVC accept an offer like that? Would our poorer schools be inclined to accept that assistance and only have to travel out there every other year? They have decent attendance that appears to be growing and are in a very nice market that would be easy to travel to as they have a major airport. It's a very good academic school that is investing more into sports. A top 100 RPI type of school that could compete in the upper half of the conference.
If we were to entertain this thought, who would number 12 be? If a spot in the MWC doesn't open up for New Mexico State, would they be considered? They have a very good basketball program (at-large worthy) and baseball doesn't suck either. It's another longer trip for our eastern schools and I believe most fly into El Paso and bus over to Las Cruces. But that's not too bad. What if they were to offer travel incentives as well? Personally, I'd rather have NMSU over Denver if I had to pick just one, and that's based off of their basketball success. If they ever got an offer to place their football team into a decent conferene, they'd be gone I'm sure, but it could be worth the risk as I think they could help elevate the conference.
If we were to go to 12, do you think that the eastern schools would demand one in the east as well? If so, who we consider? I'm been a fan of Milwaukee recently. Not as solid as the two in the west, but one that has a decently competitive RPI compared to the middle of the current conference members and it's in a decent market that grows the footprint a little. Others to consider could be Murray State or Belmont. The fear with Belmont is it's another small private like Evansville. But being located in Nashville helps and they have a nice track record. Murray State is currently in the OVC and has had some nice runs, especially last year. We're not getting SLU, Dayton or Xavier and we missed to boat on Butler.
The only other school I can think of that could be worth the risk is Arlington. They've been improving and investing in basketball and would give us a team in Texas and in the Dallas area. That could be good for both recruiting and exposure.
Odds are, we'll stay at 10, but I like looking at options as I want the Valley to be as strong as possible since it looks like the odds of anyone leaving are slim at the moment. And there are some schools currently in the conference that I don't have a lot of faith in.
I like Milwaukee and Murray as options that expand the boundaries of the conference but don't necessarily add huge travel costs. UNI has played Denver a few times recently. Would be an interesting addition, they are a better program now than when we played them, but they have been traditionally tough at home. What about Oral Roberts as an option? Please no SEMO, UMKC or Dakotas.
ORU could be solid, but I do wonder if they could keep up in the Valley sometimes. They just downgraded conferences to save on travel. I know Denver stretches things, but they're moving in the right direction and add a nice market that's easy to get to.
There's no way we should ever add SEMO or UMKC. I'm also not a fan of the Dakotas, but fear because of football they may get a shot with some of the schools. I've been a fan of Milwaukee and their potential for a while.
The question comes down to would any of the additions have the potential to bring in more money.
Dream scenario for me would be Milwaukee, Air Force (except FB), and Denver replacing Evansville.
Would leave Divisions of:
East:
Bradley
Drake
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
West:
Creighton
Missouri State
Wichita State
Air Force
Denver
UW-Milwaukee
I'd say move to 14.
East:
Bradley
Drake
ISUR
SIU
ISUb
UNI
MSU
West:
WSU
Creighton
Denver
Airforce
New Mexico
Wyoming/UTEP
ORU/Tulsa
Obviously there are some FB in there, but they could stay in the old conference or join the MVC football, whatever that's called, which would make it lucrative for WSU if they ever did bring it back.
I like that idea Shock. But the issue is and always has been the smaller (non-bcs) schools scared to explore as they cant afford to be left out in the cold.
That is the biggest hurdle as no commissioner wants to put out there that they are looking to expand, and then have a bigger stronger conference pluck a couple of thier stronger programs.
But unless we go West coast we dont move based on what is available near us.
The thing about my idea is that the small schools don't change much. The schools that change are those that want change.
But we know the FB schools arent going to come, imo.
The only way we could ever get any of those FB playing schools is if the MVC somehow worked it out where they could move up as a conference and added some. First, I don't think that's even possible and second, I don't think you'd see AFA or Tulsa or any others leave CUSA/MWC for the Valley. If we were able to move football up, we MIGHT be able to pull something off for those teams IF the likes of the BE raided one or both of their conferences and crippled them to the point where taking a chance on football in the MVC was worth it for the basketball upgrade that would be certain.
If there's any truth to the rumors of Tulsa potentially getting a football only invite to the BE and NMSU getting a football only to the Belt, the MVC should move quickly to pick all their other sports up and go to 12.
West: NMSU, WSU, TU, CU, DU, MSU
East: UNI, ISU, SIU, BU, UE, ISUb
The West could be a hell of a group together and I think stronger and the Valley as a whole.
It's possible, but do you think the privates will want to add two more publics without looking at another private (ala Oral Roberts or maybe a Valpo or even Detroit or Loyola?) I think Elgin missed out on a chance to add an up and comer with Denver.
I don't know and there is probably something to the public/private balance. I don't care if a school is public or private myself. I just want schools that can help make the conference better. Both NMSU and Tulsa I feel are better adds than ORU who I feel is the best of the privates you listed. I could still go for the addition of Denver as they'd rather be in the MVC than the Summit anyway. But Valpo does nothing for us and Detroit simply hasn't improved as expected and I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. IF there had to be an eastern add to go with a western add, than I'd consider Detroit, but would hate to take them over either Tulsa or NMSU or Denver.
I don't know if there is a concern with the balance or not, I thought I remember that being part of the 'draw' of Evansville.
There is probably also something of a concern with football/non-football as the split is currently 5/4 with Drake having non-scholarship. I don't have a problem with going for Tulsa and NMSU if they have a place for their football elsewhere. I would think adding Denver as a 'travel partner' with NMSU might work then as well. Don't know where a 4th would come from to keep it balanced.
I also like the two Wisconsin schools (Milwaukee and Green Bay) but that expands the footprint north and not sure if the conference wants to go that way.
I don't want to add just to add, but I also get more and more nervous watching things shaking up and knowing we are the only conference (other than the absolutely carved in stone Ivy) that hasn't really made a move one way or the other.
The MAC hasn't done anything either. I'm not for adding just to add but I can see value in a few schools. And Tulsa and NMSU would only be options if they moved football only elsewhere. I've also been a fan of Milwaukee in the past. Solid program, not great, but I think there's potential and it gets us access to a decent market and a decent area to recruit. I know there are a handful of schools that have recruited Wisconsin recently.
I was also just thinking about another school that I've thought about in the past. It would kind of be like Denver as there's no long term success, but it's a good market and this one is in an area that a number of Valley teams recruit and is a school that has recently started to make an effort into improving their basketball and have shown signs of success in doing so. I'm talking about Arlington. Ideally, we could watch and see what they do and if they continue to improve. But I personally think it would be nice if we had a school in Texas. I don't know all who recruits there, but I know CU, WSU and MSU do for sure. If TU was added, they recruit down there as well I believe.
I would think that with a UTA or NMSU, there would need to be a linking school because of how far out of the current footprint they are. Denver and Tulsa would be, in my opinion, bigger prizes than those two and two we should (or should have in Denver's case) target first.
I don't think there is another Oklahoma school besides OU, OSU, Tulsa and ORU, correct? Colorado has a few, but CU isn't leaving, neither would CSU or Air Force out of the MWC and we do not want Northern Colorado.
AFA would only be an option if the put football in the BE. But I don't see them doing that. The "travel partner" issue would be problematic. But I think we could figure a way to work around it if the add was good enough to strengthen the conference as a whole.
Back to this. It looks like we're definitely adding one. Rumors have been that Belmont and Denver are at the top of the list but Denver may have decided to stick with the Summit.... Belmont seems concerned to some degree about keeping up considering the lack of a draw that are. So money could be an issue there. I simply don't know enough about those things with them. Valpo is one to consider if we're going with a private to replace Creighton. ORU will always be considered as well. I'd prefer Denver, followed by Belmont and then Valpo.
Now if we go to 12 and public schools are considered, I'd like to look at Murray State, Wright State, Arlington and perhaps Milwaukee. But UWM would need a solid plan. I'd also say NMSU if they could find a football only home and bring the rest to the MVC. Murray is a solid program. Wright has been solid and I think has potential and is in Dayton. Arlington is like Denver in that it's been investing in basketball and is making progress. Wouldn't suck to have a presence in Texas.
I've seen some mention of Loyola or UIC, but a 4th school in IL, even if it is Chicago, seems a bit much.
NDSU fans seem to think they have an outside shot, but I don't know if there's more than 2 schools that would vote for them.
Not sure who else to really consider at the moment. You could take a flyer on Detroit, but they're another small school with little support and don't have the success of Belmont or Valpo. Valpo at least has a little fan support.
Nobody else has any thoughts? Any schools I've overlooked? Better knowledge of anybody I mentioned? Want to call me a complete idiot?
To me Valpo has always made sense if the MVC wants to go to 10 and replace a private school with a private school. Valpo seems a lot like the other private schools I guess.
All of these schools aren't exactly going anywhere so the Valley could add one and wait to move to 12 if they find worthy candidates.